Anyone read Terry Pratchett? I think this quote is one of the best quotes on religion that I have read.

The point is that if you truly believe that there is a God out there who loves you and will reward you eternally for good actions and punish people terribly who do otherwise:

Why are you not travelling the globe spreading his word?
Why are you not giving your possessions away to help people?
Why are you not waging war on the Muslim world which consists of large numbers of people basically condemning their peers in their millions to eternal torment by preaching false religions?
Why do you sit in expensive buildings praying when there are people dying who you could be helping instead?
Why do you accept medical help when you are ill?

My answer...because in your heart of hearts, you believe you might be wrong or you never truly believed in the first place. Hence there are no Christians on this forum.

Discuss

No we are Christians, we are just not perfect humans. Giving your money to the poor and spreading the globe to spread the Word are the moral superior things to do, it doesn't mean if we don't do the moral superior thing all the time, we aren't Christians. We are basic human beings, just like atheist, hindu's, etc. etc. We don't have special skills that enable us to act according to the moral superior laws that came from the Bible.

And why should we 'wage wars' (I assume you mean violently) against Muslims? Why shouldn't we accept medical help? Did you even read the NT or what? IIRC it's not a sin according to Orthodox Christian theology to accept medical help?

Terry Pratchett is brilliant. It's like Winnie the Pooh where the simplicity (and in Pratchett's case: absurdity) mask very profound issues.

For what it's worth, Christians who debate their views openly are far more similar to your typical ancient time religious scholar than the missionary. I've always liked a debater more than a proselytizer.

I won't comment on what constitutes a "true" Christians.

Do you think you just get up one day and teach Mathematics without studying for a good long while?

If not then why would you think Christians are any different?

In my opinion, those questions asked in OP are not ones that should be directed at all Christians on an internet forum. I mean really, you take a few things that some Christians may not do correctly and your making a thread and accusing all Christians of that. Pretty unfair thread. Every person has their own answer to each of those questions. Also if you believe that Christians should be following their religion better, then you should also believe that it is God's job to judge Christians, not yours.

Please show us where Christ teaches to rage wars. Also, how can atheists condemn Christians for starting wars, but then also condemn them for not starting wars...really guys...
Why do you even bother posting in a religious forum if you know that it is fake?

My answer...because in your heart of hearts, you believe you might be wrong or you never truly believe otherwise in the first place. Hence, you are not an atheist. LOL, or maybe i should just categorize all non-believers on this forum as not atheist because of you.

But why wouldn't you if you believe this life is insignificant to what comes after other than the moral actions you take?

No - atheists believe this life is it so we make the best of it but [in general] do not believe that it is necessary to totally screw our life over in order to help those less fortunate. You assert that you believe in a more fulfilling existence outside this one - what reason do you have to value this life other than the opportunity it gives you to show yourself worthy of heaven?

..so you will condemn generations of them to eternal torment in hell but balk at using violence to demonstrate to them the clear superiority of your supposed belief? Interesting moral position here...

OK this was added as a bit of an afterthought - I know it is not a sin but why should you accept medical help? Are you not interfering with nature - at least as much as homosexuals and abortion are for example. On a personal level isn't death better for you if you believe what you claim to believe?

Good point - so all the young Christians are studying and learning exactly what God wants and all the old ones who have completed their study are acting just as I state in the OP...?

Please stop this nonsense.

Terry Pratchett, "Good Omens"

He has given us light, in more ways then 1. He has given us rules, but of course you are not going to know them if you don't bother to read them. And please explain how the cards are blank.

Also please explain how it is logical to believe the words of some person that are shown to be completely ridiculous and false.

You didn't answer my question.

When does a Christian reach full Christian maturity?

Do all Christians possess the same gifts from God?

I don't believe in God. My contention in the OP is that I don't believe in your belief in God without significant actions to back it up.

I also object to the suggestion that I "take a few things that some Christians may not do correctly". I would hazard a guess that most Christians act nothing like I state in the OP unless you define "Christians" incredibly rigidly.

Every person has their own answer is a fair enough statement. I've given what I believe the most common one is.

Christ doesn't, but the OT is full of it (I know that is out of date now - except for the bits about homosexuality of course...)

If your religion is false, the wars you commit in its name are an atrocity - if it is true, your failure to start wars is just as bad.

"Know" is a strong word. I don't even suggest in the OP that Christianity is false. There is nothing in my argument that could not be posted by a Christian AFAIK.

"I consider myself an atheist but believe there is a (slight) possibility I might be wrong about atheism" is a true statement for me. Where does this contradict anything in the OP?

Corinthians says no.

I thought you were saying that it took time for people to study Christianity before they acted fully as Christians. I argued against that (admittedly sarcastically) making the point that older Christians were no more likely to act like the OP suggests than younger ones.

In answer to your questions above, I do not know when a Christian reaches maturity, but I would expect dedication similar to Mother Teresa for example from someone who truly believed in what you claim to believe unless I have completely misunderstood the Christian message.

I understand that the capabilities of Christians are different, but I would hazard there are not many people who attend your church who have given up all their possessions or made other equally significant contributions to the cause.

Well you seem to have some kind of extreme standard you are holding everyone to that ignores several realities and scriptural explanations as well.

First Christians sometimes don't have the money since they are less money motivated.

Second if you read the NT people are given different gifts. Not everyone is called to be a teacher.

Third most people including Christians themselves don't realize God is in control as to when people go into missionary work and or use other gifts. We wait on God...we don't jump the gun on him....Actually one of the hardest tasks is learning patience and perseverance in waiting on God...because we are in his hands and he shapes us before we can do anything. You really only learn this by reading the older Christian heads because a literal reading of scripture will tend to make you think like your OP does and that is the way a lot of immature Christians think as well.

God oftentimes has to break us and train us before he can use us as well.

I suggest you research this.

Also on top of it all...if Christians didn't wait on God technically we could exhaust ourselves and go broke....I like to think we have a base camp and have to sustain our supply and keep our own people regenerating...God tells us when and where to use our resources...Learning to listen to him is the probably the most critical part...If you can't focus on God and learn to let him call the shots how can you serve him? Doesn't God also know best so we don't waste ourselves and our resources unnecessarily?

Matthew 23.

Is it possible that dedicated Christians do things but do not do them to be noticed by G1982?

i dont think u need to be going round trying to save the world in order to be a good christian let alone a good person.if ur a nice decent person u do thinks without thinking not because u think ur going to be rewarded.As for recieving help when sick like seriously cop the *** on that has nothing to do with faith.so as u believe in god u should accept ur faith and die as its his will.Could the sick person argue that it is a test to see can they recover and get through it.As for the bible im sure their is a lot of room to manouvre with various issues and its not just set in stone like abc

Lol what? Yet another example of:

"Apples, oranges, therefore pineapples. Discuss."

You skipped a step, namely something resembling a logical argument that leads from your premises to your conclusion.

I remember thinking this when I was in 3rd grade. And I believe by and large it still stands up to scrutiny. (Concerto's pineapple remark not withstanding, of course).

I think the first blush Christian answer is something to the effect of: nobody's perfect, but through god's grace bla bla bla. But you know what? While we're none of use perfect, for a contest with a chance to win $300, I was able to lose 30 pounds in a brief period of time. For a contest with a chance to win eternal rewards, I think I could bear to live as the god and Jesus characters in bible instruct us to.

1. Christians believe they are overwhelmingly rewarded in the next life for actions they take in this one
2. A logical consequence of this belief is you would act in the most moral way possible according to your beliefs
3. Giving away your possessions to feed the hungry is an example of a behaviour which would seem to fit this description
4. Few Christians do this - hence premise 1 is false.

Spot the mistake...?

Why not - what else is your purpose in this life? (Note people who are "good people" but do not believe in eternal reward have a different balance of priorities.)

1. I agree some Christians do not have the money to help others - also note the OP is "There are no Christians on this forum" so everyone referred to has a computer and internet connection. This implies that they have money above the necessities.

2/3. Interesting points that you state that God doesn't actually want you to do these things but instead to wait for instructions. I'm struggling to see why this would be the case though - like you say this is at odds with a literal meaning of most of the Bible. What I am struggling with is what the purpose is of all the waiting around when every delay condemns more people to eternal torment.

Actually i think a computer and internet is close to a necessity in this present day world. For anyone to say someone is not a Christian because they own a computer is just absurd.

Well I disagree with the way you interpret the bible. I think God works with us individually. The book of Isaiah says he calls us by name. Obviously your usefulness is impacted if you go out too early because you need to meditate on God to learn about him. See Psalm 1.

I also tend toward reincarnationism so I think he can be reincarnating people to be spiritually preparing them to receive Christ in the future.

The mistake is thinking we are the ones in control. We're not.

Besides you forget we have television and if you research it you will see Apostles/missionaries/teachers do go out at different times in history. What's blocking them? Don't they run into resistance?