...to make you not like him?

This is a serious question, because I can’t imagine what it would take to make a devoutly religious believer dislike god. And I think unconditional admiration and respect is a very unhealthy and irrational mindset to keep. To the point where it surpasses delusional and gets into the realm of insanity. Hopefully, I’m misinformed in thinking that literally any act performed by god would be justified as something beyond human comprehension and therefore by default, must be righteous in his infinite wisdom.

What if he took your mother or 6 month old infant and caused them to bounce off the walls until they were bloody pulps? Would you then hold god in contempt?

I ask, because so far, nothing seems to have done the trick. Not having his only son brutally tortured. Not mass murder. Not infanticide. Not standing idly by while great suffering occurs. I have to say that I am truly glad there is no hard evidence of religious myths. I don’t think I could force myself to like such a god. Let alone worship one.

But I digress and don’t mean to make this about me. I’m curious how the religious feel. Is your respect for god truly unconditional? Or is there an act he could commit that would cause you to dislike him? Thanks.

Btw- I intentionally did not use the word love. I’m pretty sure there is no action one of my kids could take that would cause me not to love them. But I can see myself one day not liking them, or losing my respect for them. This is what I’m talking about. Would appreciate sincere answers.

And no matter what your answer... Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to all!!

Is there anything God could do to make me not like him?

Sure! He could leave the toilet seat up.

Hey Stu.

G1. But I don't think you're understanding...

So if you fell in, could it be said that you dislike god?

How could someone who is perfect love do something unloving? Impossible!

Now if God did not stick to his word, or was not perfect love, then sure I would lose trust for God easily!

You don't consider mass murder and infanticide unloving? This is exactly what I mean and if I didn't know your history, I'd think you were leveling me with this comment. It drips irony.

So this is where we get into the "why ask a question when all you really want to do is argue..." scenario, right? But it's not that I want to argue or am not genuinely interested in an answer. It's that you are completely ignoring the central theme to my question and pretending it isn't there. So let me be more specific...

If god took your mother, father, son, or daughter and with an invisible force, bounced them off 4 walls like they were a super ball until they were dead bloody pulps, what would you think of god then? Can you admit that you would lose your admiration of him? Whether he would do it or not. If he did... Would you lose your admiration and respect for him? What I want to know is, are there any circumstances where you're capable of losing your admiration for god.

It's a simple yes or no question. Feel free to expound all you want (I'd be interested in this), but only after you state a simple yes or no. Thanks.


This is close, but not quite the same because (in your mind), this is a logical impossibility. How would we go about setting up an event with real world tangible consequences where god lies? Whereas, we can easily imagine the real world implications of a loved being thrown into hard surfaces until bloody and dead. So let's stick with that please.

A fairly universal trait of persons is that they want others to like them.

So if there is a personal God, I damn well hope I'm smart enough to like him under any and all circumstances.

Of course, I'm either smart enough or dumb enough to suspect that there isn't. So I dislike him quite a bit.

My sarcasm meter must be on the fritz. Is this a joke?

If not, I don't get how you're equating liking someone with intelligence. Even if they were comparable are you suggesting that if god tortures a loved one, it's smart to still like him and dumb not to?

And do you seriously dislike something you suspect doesn't even exist?

You're losing me.

Whatever God might do, the fact that He created the entire human race and the universe we live in out of nothing (and therefore owns them), and also that His knowledge and love are vastly greater than mine, will always give Him the benefit of any passing doubt I could have.

Thank you. This is honest. I find it frightening, but honest. This is what I wanted to know. I wonder how many other devout believers are of the same mindset as Concerto?

I actually think about this all the time. What if my family or something was brutally murdered, would I still think the same way I do now? I think that the answer is determined by whether or not my beliefs are based on emotions.

The fact is, either suffering is allowed to exist for a reason, or it is not. If I believe that there is a reason that suffering exists, and it is a good reason, then no one incident should cause me to change my current view (from an intellectual standpoint).

Unless I knew for a fact (which I am not sure how this could happen) that God did something simply to be a dick, I don't see my mind changing. But I don't see how this sort of God could exist. So you would have to convince me of that first.

If you could convince me that the God that my father (and many other mainstream Christians believe in) exists, one that smites people because he didn't like what they did and tortures people for all eternity based on the wrong answers on the cosmic multiple choice test that is life, I would reject Christianity.

And if you could go one step further and convince me that this is the only God that could exist if God does exist, then I would reject theism.

If you have the choice whether to like or dislike God, and you go to hell if you dislike God and heaven if you like him, then it's smart to like God. By and large.

I dislike plenty of things I suspect don't even exist. Like Sean Penn's character in Carlito's Way, I hate that dick.

Wait, what? Wouldn't you first need to know that your default position - that suffering like birth defects exists for net positive reasons - for a fact first?

It is not a fact that suffering exists for net positive reasons.

It is not a fact that suffering exists for bad/no reason(s).

Why do you default to the position that you like the most and require proof for the one that you don't like when, based on evidence, you could just as easily - or more easily - view it the other way around?

All you are doing is attempting to project your biases onto reality. This shoud be plainly obvious, but I've pointed that out to you numerous times throughout the years on various subjects and you basically just never respond so I don't expect anything to change.

Translation: The universe sometimes seems ridiculously incompatible with my idea of god, but I will always blindly believe that my parents and the bible are right.

This is a great answer. I'm intrigued by this question, because I'm trying to think how I would have answered back when I was a believer. I think I was of a mindset that god could do no wrong. So no matter what happened, even if he were to slay my parents before my eyes, I would have chalked it up to it "being god's will" and found a way justify my continued adoration.

I now think that this a very dangerous mindset to have and I'm glad to hear that there are devout believers like yourself who have taken the time to think this through. I think that's very important. To be honest, I expected many more answers like Pletho's, Concerto's, or like I think mine would have been when I believed. That basically, god can do no wrong under any circumstances.

One last thing, is that I think this ties into why it is so hard to debate existence with certain theists. If one refuses to accept that there is an action that should be considered wrong were god to commit it, then it stands to reason that evidence based arguments are always going to fall flat. Anyway, I appreciate all the answers. Thanks.

Ask Job.

It might be smart but it would be imposable if God bounced my family off the walls. There would be no choice not even for believers or you imo. Our minds would auto think, dick.

It might be smart but it would be imposable if God bounced my family off the walls. There would be no choice not even for believers or you imo. Our minds would auto think you dick.

As if this forum doesn't have enough problems caused by bafflingly bad translation.

Your looking at God with none seeing eyes. You see life and death in terms of this earth age. You see people in terms of their age in this earth age. In your eyes birth here is your beginning and death here is your end. We all have existed for a very long time. Some were judged innocent and predestinated to do set task in this age. They have no choice. Others were not so innocent and it is Gods hope they take this chance for salvation. They have to choose. Ephesians 1:4,5 for a reference. God protected his plan for that salvation. The bloodline from 8th day Adam and Eve to Christ had to be protected. When the fallen angels came to earth they tried to mess up that bloodline and mixed with the daughters of 8th day Adam till only Noah and his family remained with a pure bloodline. The offspring of the fallen angels were destroyed in the flood. There was another attemp by more angels to mess up that bloodline. The offspring of these were mostly killed off in wars at the orders of God. These fallen angles refused to be born of water into this age and came here in their angelic bodies. Christ made it clear that them angels will not see the third Heaven age in John 3:5. They most likly meet their permanent end in Revelation 11:13.