You're welcome to take whatever eschatological stance you choose. It is possible for someone to say something and be telling the truth, but simultaneously a listener interprets it to be something else. I can doubt the veracity of the interpreter's understanding of the situation without doubting that the speaker is being truthful.

And fundamentally, this only reinforces the issue with "about to happen."

This is logically distinct from "this is what is happening in the present moment in my life" which is what your original statement implied ("what will happen right now").

The quality of your statements falls into a similar category of that of fortune tellers. Why not just make the statement that the Bible claims that humans are sinful? Why go through this weird set up? "I sinned in the past, and the Bible says I'm a sinner. Therefore it told me what happened in the past." That's just a silly way of doing things.

Where's Aron when you need him, owh yeah he's so biased that he only challenges atheist views, hahahha! Talk about a hypocrite!

Did you not have time or were you blind to the fact of this claim? Why don't you challenge this with logic, that's right, as I said before you cherry-pick when to use logic!

What proof do you have that the bible is Gods word?

Also you make my point perfectly, as in if it's in the bible then we can rest assured that it's ok, I mean thats the most stupidest thing you can actually believe in!

Why would you blindly take it for Gods word? What if Satan wrote it? Wouldn't that be the ultimate Satanic trick, have you all believing he is God?

So God is not good? I can get on board with that, I have always said that if God exists (according to religious books), he must be Satan himself.

But I'm not about to start believing in such a God, I am not going to waste my time with a lowlife bum, that is not truly a God but a wannabe.

Thanks for clearing that up, the Gods in religions are fake Gods, I already knew this and now you do too.

Your own image or just use logic. I know logic is a tough subject for a cherry picker. You aren't able to stay consistent with logic, look into why you can't do this Aaron.

I love it when people start claiming logic to an illogical event. You don't understand because you are not God. God moves in mysterious ways. Just because you think it's evil does not mean God does, God has far more superior knowledge hence why it's ok for him to do evil so and so.

No, enough with this nonsense already. It's not ok, period! I don't care if it's in the bible or if it's because "I don't understand it" bull****.

The bull**** has to stop, owh God does this but if he does it, it's ok....**** that ****!


That's because all religious books are full of ****, you people all follow Satan, who has you tricked that he is actually God! Naturally you think you are following God, you are so braindead and a sheep that you don't question him, because he has you under his spell and you think he is God, hence when people attack your worldview and show you evidence that he is Satan himself, you simply defy to see any truth to it!

Aaron is living proof that he accepts what has been spoonfed to him as a child! A child is easily manipulated, we can't blame Aaron for challenging me or others when it comes to his love for his God (Satan), you Aaron will defend him with reason, despite all of Gods flaws, despite all the evil God does, Aaron will defend him, if that is not complete brainwashed then I don't know what is!!!!!

If that is not the ultimate proof that God is indeed Satan and that God does not exist, then I don't know what to say!

What is good?

I'm sure you have. But you saying it doesn't particularly seem to mean anything unless you are able to flesh out what you mean by it.

That's fine. People can believe or not believe as they see fit.

It's funny to me how there are many irreligious folks who buy into simple mantras without carefully reflecting on the meaning of what they're saying, and in so doing show themselves to be as shallow as the religious folk the intend to mock.

Interesting false dichotomy.

I love it when people start putting words into other people's mouths. It's like you're not actually engaged in intellectual thought or reflection, but are merely parroting things you've said to yourself hundreds of times before. That doesn't sound like anyone you've ever met, does it?

Indeed, enough with this nonsense.

"You people" -- There's no chance at all that you're engaged in the intellectual fallacy of false generalization, is there? Because that's something that "you people" tend to do.

Naturally, you think you're being "logical" but you are such a braindead sheep that you don't even question your own assumptions, because you are under a spell of stupidity. You think there is no God, hence when people put forth a religious worldview you start spouting nonsense about "Satan" as if you actually understand what you mean by that and have a coherent theological and epistemological perspective, yet think you understand something about "truth."

What do you know of my childhood? You may choose not to blame me, but I blame you for your own intellectual derelict for selecting mere arrogance instead of engaging in thoughtful reflection of the words you are using.

For instance, what do you know of the God I'm defending? Have you been so brainwashed as to think that simply because the word "God" is used that it must be whatever imagery you have in your head? Do you not see the shortcomings of such an approach?

Had you stayed silent, you could have been seen as intelligent. Instead, you spoke when you didn't know what to say and have provided evidence of your lack of knowledge.

There are good and interesting arguments that can be made, but you don't seem capable of that. Instead, you've chosen the sludge of knowledge found in the stagnant pool of sophomoric philosophizing.

Wake me up when you're past the infantile stages of atheistic rubbish.

The really deep irony is that the post just before this one is doing precisely what you claim I don't do. But don't let facts or reality get in your way. You already don't let your own illogic bother you, so you might as well go all-in on the nonsense.

You will find you can't prove that anything in the bible is false. even the noahs ark with all the animals going onto the ark you can't prove its false. Lots of things explained in the bible are true because they have happened and continue to happen everyday. God said in the word that he doesn't lie. Do you believe him?

This could be true. with the newer versions of the bible some people believe they are false versions. really only the king james version is the only version in english which is not corrupted by satan.

In the new international version it explains

JOHN 3:16: The NIV reads, "For God so loved the world that he gave his ONE AND ONLY SON, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

However that is a lie. Jesus was not the one and only son. Adam was called the son of God in Luke 3:38.

KJV Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

I John 3:2- but Jesus was the "ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.

They remove the word begotten in the niv version.

theres countless examples in the new international version where they pervert the truth.

Since theres lies in the new international version i tend to believe it is corrupted by satan.

the new international version is used by a lot of churches as there main bible they read from. satan is in the church folks.

Don't you see the problem with this? Who in their right mind would want some Satan deciding who gets poverty and who gets wealth? Or who he humbles or exalts?

This is in line with some dictatorship, perhaps some kind of hierarchy! If you brown-nose God enough, ie believe in him and worship him, then he will exalt you, if not then he will humble you and lead you to poverty.

I mean only a blind person can't see this is Satan COMMANDING YOU to follow what he says, if not then he shall punish you!

Really that's suppose to be a God, a real God? He is going to humble me if I don't believe in him, really? I mean you adults are buying this? Really??

I mean lets put this into perspective shall we. We all know how hierarchy work right, the 1 who's at the top has all the power, just look at politicians for example, you see how corrupt they are. They are all in it to make money for themselves, only lobby if they are paid on the side, as an example lottery is ok, while online poker is considered unlawful, gambling, I mean how can you take this seriously.

What do I know, you grew up in a religious house hold, did you not? It was then that you were brainwashed to believe in your God Satan, is this incorrect?

You are religious are you not? Christian correct?

By all means correct me if I am wrong but I doubt I am wrong!

Satan all in your ear, you even being coy about your religion now, is this what it's come down to, why you being so deceptive about your religion?

not every person believer or non believer will be poor. not every believer will have lots of money. not every non believer will win the one drop.

as for politicians they are put into power by God. Some are good and some are bad.
there's people in politics that would want all gambling made illegal. online poker is only played by a small % of the population where millions of people play lotto each week. Doesn't help online pokers case when there isn't a huge amount of people who want to play it.

I was nominally Christian as a child.

This is incorrect.

Yes, but not in the language as you understand it.

Yes, but not in the language as you understand it.

This much is obvious. You don't have much capacity for self reflection and analysis, so you have no reason to doubt you're wrong.

What is deceptive? You're pulling some of the most intellectually shallow in-group/out-group guilt by association tactics throughout here. So of course you think I'm being deceptive, because you can't even comprehend what anything means.

My turn to ask questions: Tell me you theology of Satan. You have one, don't you? You've been speaking as if you do. Or are you just babbling about something that you don't really have any understanding about?

Tell me your epistemological perspective of truth, and why it is you think you've got it and others don't. Why should your rendering of reality take precedent?

Or are you incapable of this because you've allowed yourself to be trapped in your own form of brainwashing in which you merely repeat things to yourself until you believe it, while never once taking stock of what's actually true in the world around you?

Maybe you're just an intellectual coward that has to hide behind bluster because he knows he's not smart enough to have an actual conversation.

I believe God. I don't believe your interpretation of his words.

Are you among the "some people"? Regardless of your answer, can you explain your logic?

Do you believe the word "son" has only one meaning?

Do you believe that language is stagnant or dynamic?

How do you feel about "Da Jesus Book" (which is the New Testament in Hawaiian Pidgin)? Look it up online and let me know what your linguistic analysis of it is.

We are almost done here Aaron, I will end with this though.

"What do you know of my childhood?"

So I am right with just about everything, when you asked what I know about your childhood, yet you still think that Satan did not brainwash you.

How can you be so sure, are you saying that a brainwashed person, a person under a a strong strong spell is able to distinguish whether or not such a spell is cast upon him?

Tell that to people that are hypnotized, are they able to tell, while under hypnosis that they are indeed hypnotized?

And

I'm all ears, if you want to talk about your "different" religion, is this a religion you made up, it differs slightly from Christianity because you realised that after reading the bible, you couldn't come to terms that a God like in those books could really be classed as a God?

So young Aaron changed it, you cherry-picked what you liked and threw away what you didn't, and if people would ever question you, you'd say well, it's not in a language you understand, I made my own up nananana, you don't understand naaanaaaaanananana... I then picture you putting your fingers in your ears at age 8 or so!

Something like this?

Interesting you say this, but then you also ask questions to which you would presumably want answers. Notice how you completely ignored my inquiries on intellectual matters. I wonder why you might choose to do that. Wait... no I don't. I know exactly why.

In other words, you've made an assumption and you're not willing to believe anything other than what you already believe. This is a sure sign of an open-minded individual in pursuit of what's true in the world.

Indeed. How can anyone know anything? But if that's really your argument, then it can be turned right back around at you. How are you so convinced of your beliefs? In particular, what makes you so convinced about your beliefs about me and my childhood?

Hypnosis is an entirely different subject than brainwashing, and it's odd that you're mixing the two here. Maybe that's just another sign of your puerile understanding.

You probably also have no knowledge of hypnosis based on your statement here. But that's a different topic for a different day.

LOL

Something like that.

If you were wise, you really would end it here. The more you type, the more you reveal how substantially under-read and you are in religion and religious perspectives, and proving why certain strands of atheism are as bad (if not worse) than certain strands of Christianity. You are taking the position that abject ignorance is something to be proud of, and relishing in putting it on display for all to see.

If you were wise, you really would just walk away from the conversation. I suspect you're not, but only time will tell.

What's going to happen if I don't walk away? Are you threatening me? Seems like a Satanic threat to me!

This is exactly what I mean Aaron, if you were good (on Gods side) you'd be happy for me to stay and hopefully I learn something right!

But

If you are bad (on Satans side) you'd want me to go away!

If after all this you are still not convinced that you follow Satan, then I don't what else to tell you.

This thread takes the cake.

Two topics I try to stay away from are religion and politics, but I popped into this forum on a whim and this thread literally tilted me

I think "proof" is the wrong terminology to use here because you're talking about something that's impossible to prove one way or the other. But if you must use the term, then I'd consider "actual" proof to be evidence that a reasonable objective person should accept. I, for instance, do not accept the claim that any gods exists. If you have evidence to the contrary I'm all ears

Ironically, I already told you what would happen, and then it happened. Maybe I'm a psychic.

You think I'm *not* happy that you came back?

You don't know what to say and yet you keep talking. Interesting.

You don't think that you "prove" that some atheists are complete idiots when you refuse to acknowledge simple facts in a conversation? You don't think it makes them look shallow or stupid when you're blabbing on about something that you admit you know nothing about?

I love how Aaron, despite claiming some dip**** belief, doesn't actually present his evidence but rather tries to annoy people with his antics. Guess what buddy, nobody cares about your comments. Just show the evidence.

I generally agree with this.

Okay.

What does a "reasonable, objective person" say about the experience of consciousness? Or of the core nature of the universe? And what would they count as "evidence" in this case?

If you are looking for measurable and repeatable evidence, as if God is something mechanical like gravity, then you won't find it. And maybe for that reason, you might conclude that no gods can exist, because you're assuming that God must be like the universe, subject to mechanical action-reaction variable elimination processes. And you would be logically consistent.

But one might rightfully question whether your methodology is sufficient for the task that you've chosen for it.

I love how you still haven't thought deeply enough to even begin to tease apart the nature of your assumptions about "evidence" and yet you think you're ready for a real conversation about it.

So you don't have it, got it.

By the way. Just to dispense with the debate about the word "proof" I see that I have to tell people that there cannot be a proof of God unless people trained in proofs read it and then proclaimed God MUST exist. Proof is completely different from evidence.

There's loads of evidence of God's existence. Unfortunately it is almost all anecdotal, and anecdotes are one of the weakest forms of evidence as they are rarely verifiable or reproducible, and are extremely susceptible to individual bias.

All other "evidence" of God's existence that I can think of has a common flaw. When people can't understand something, they claim that God can explain it and that this is evidence of God. The problem with this approach is that God is designed as the answer to questions where answers are otherwise unknown. One can not arrive at "God" as the answer to a question by logical means. God is the answer by definition. Even if one were to accept that being unable to explain something is evidence of God, it does nothing to support a particular nature of God.

"I don't know" is a valid position. Religious people for some reason don't seem content to live in ignorance.

If God truly existed we would of known about it, the fact that we debating whether he exists or not is not a good thing.

Are you really saying that God can not convince us, show proof of his existence? I mean are we even talking about the same God, you guys need to start defining God.

Aaron's logic: You see the reason we are all suffering is because back in the day, thousands of years ago, some dude and dudette decided to sin, yep, they decided to eat an apple. An apple? Yeah an apple, buuuuut...

The apple is a metaphor, a methaphor, I ask... yeah, like it wasn't the apple that did it, it was the fact that their Master Satan told them to not do something....gotcha.

So Satan made 2 kids, then said don't do this, they did it (whats the hell was he expecting, they're kids for crying out loud!), so now 7 billion other people who have nothing to do with them all have to suffer? Yeah, that's right...Hmmm, thats ****ed up, does not seem logical at all. I mean if you sin, why should I suffer, hmmmm... I'm not sure actually, but **** it, it says it in the bible and the bible is Gods word, promise.

(Guys even the worst criminals on earth that have committed the worse crimes ever, still manage to get out of prison, unless death penalty, but my point is that, they have committed way worse crimes then both Adam and EVE and waaaay waaay worse than us, we have nothing to do with both A&E, yet this monster you call God, is so ****ing bananas that he has the nerve to judge us (don't ask me his educational credentials, probably the deep south KKK and we all blacks) while we had nothing to do with Adam and Eve sinning

The fact that they only ate an apple, a ****ing tree that is present in the garden of Eden, a tree that's put in your face, for **** sake, how can anyone take this nonsense serious!

They disobeyed an order, that's it! Is all this really necessary, ask yourself that? All the corruption, hate, evil in this world all because they disobeyed an order! Go ahead tell me that is a real God, go ahead, or am I right and indeed he is Satan, go ahead challenge me! I dare you!!!)

Hmmm, but if that's already suspicious, how can you be certain that the bible is Gods word? Hmmmm. Well because the writers put it in the book, so it must be true! Hmmmm. but couldn't the writers lie? Hmmmm, yeah they could but why would they, + God would of told us if they did.

So naturally, you have to suffer now, get it! This is real logic, trust me, I know because it says so in the bible.

Guys, real logic, ok!

If you ever bring up why we suffer, this is the brilliant logic you get in return, after I heard that, I was convinced that the bible was the true word of God, I mean how can anyone disagree with that, story, I mean the logic, I was perplexed first time I heard about this, it all started to make perfect sense to me! Aaron, back me up on this 1, how can anybody disagree?

Yeah, I think you are very unhappy, you wouldn't be calling me all kinds of silly names otherwise, would you.

You are clearly very emotional and upset, that's why you revert to name calling.

Doesn't matter, whether you think I'm dumb or not, the fact remains that you claim God, without any kind of backup for such a claim.

I am willing to be wrong about my beliefs, are you?

While you call me a dummy and all that other nonsense, it does show your true character, you love to sit on that high horse of yours and act all superior and arrogant, don't you. If I think of Satan, I'd of thought perhaps he too would behave a little like this, just a thought)

Owhh look at me, I'm Aaron I'm so intellectually superior to you, I will belittle you with fancy words, words that nobody ever uses, because deep down I'm a little princess trapped in a mans body, (ooooopppss, that was meant to stay private)...Aaron, you are the man bro, the hypocrite sits on a high horse talking ****, while telling you to stop talking ****! Too funny!