the delusion is beautiful. I wonder if I take a bunch of the worst splendour posts and take them to another forum (maybe a christian forum)... I'd be curious if I can get people to call me a fake just because the content is almost pure babble and random non-sequitors.

Thanks Splendour for justifying oppression of women. Its true if they just submit there is less fighting.

Thanks to Christians, I've had some good arguments about why sexism and slavery are both jim dandy.

I'm just proving the bible's right that male chauvinism is endemic and women need to beware of it.

In the Garden of Eden Adam made excuses and threw Eve under the bus and a lot of Adam's descendents are still doing that. Adam wasn't smart like Job. He'd didn't say "Hey God I was wrong. I am but dust and ashes."

Some people lead and "can do" and some people make excuses.

yes. That's what the Bible is saying when it tells women to be quiet.

I'm convinced you either don't know what you're saying or don't believe it. Because you're making less sense then usual.

Yes. that's the message people get out of Adam and Eve. And it would be just like splenda to remove eve from the story.

that's true. You make endless excuses. and bad ones at that.

Ignore (x). Sin is a parasite hence its communicable. I have my own parasite to deal with and its easier if I don't let you communicate yours to me. Its purity of thinking that helps us to contain and beat the sin parasite. Read Farley and good luck.

This is at least the 10th time you've said I'm on ignore. You've left this forum for good at least half a dozen times. Me thinks you don't get these concepts either.

But it is better to run and hide when you can't address simple questions.

I'm saying a correct understanding of Christian doctrine would lead to less of the undesirable chauvinistic aberrations. But not everyone has a correct understanding.

Culture has no universal constant. Subjection might be more right in some generations but not in others. Still subjection minimizes conflict and the whole world and most people engage in rebellion at one time or another. We rebel against work, parents, government, spouses, etc.

The bible is much more about equitable treatment or in the OT learning lovingkindness than about subjection.

Also the word for submit is hupotasso which means "mutual submission".

A short explanation on hupotasso: http://goingbrokewithjesus.com/blog/...bible-verse_63

Im not sure what adjustment you're talking about as any adjustment would go against Gods word of wanting men in charge.
Equality is far from abstract when it comes to womens rights. At one time woman couldn't vote (among many other things) now they can.

I feel treating women unequally is being hard on them.

Splendour if you support the idea women should be subservient to men. I dont even know why you would have a problem with people posting those verses. It would be like having problem if an atheist posted a verse about turning the other cheek. You should be happy they are promoting the word of God.

If you're trying to convince me the women should be treated unequally. If your trying to convince me those verses arent sexist. I dont think its going to go anywhere.

There's really too much blurring in this forum of the lines between correct doctrine and various cultures.

I don't have a problem with the verses being posted I have a problem with them being misconstrued as a violation of women's rights and being portrayed as a feminist issue.

If you view God as primarily concerned about the individual and the family and trying to establish a balanced and stable family life instead of as a mass social issue it makes a difference in how you look at things.

I think God has a design for married couples to work cooperatively. If you read the Judaism link above you can see thats how the ancient Hebrews saw things. Also social conditions in general in every generation seem to bear out that co-operation is optimum because without it you have more divorce which leads to financial asset division that leads to poverty and sometimes children even lose role models and sometimes even domestic violence. So I see God as directing to de-escalate conflict not to escalate it. The bible teachs the fruits of the spirit. If you try to achieve the fruits of the spirit then you don't have all these funky bellicose relationships. The bible even teachs people to hold their tongue. Just imagine how many arguments and conflicts are resolved if people can hold their peace.

Gods word is for all cultures and all times. At least that is what it said in the OT.
They are a violation of womens rights when they are implemented and used to support laws like women shouldn't be able to vote.

You say treating women as equals leads to a less stable relationship. Maybe for you not for me. Treating them as subservient would lead to more conflict as it would make me unhappy to not be with a strong equal women and partner.

Its possible to treat someone equally and still have cooperation.

I know how they and some modern Christian see things. I disagree.

Actually the treatment of women as subservient leads to many of the problems your bring up, especially the last one.
Look if you want to freely submit to a man go for it. My problem is when you and your God demand everyone should act that way. Or suggest that those verses and the bible are asking for anything but submission and unequal treatment.

Think its end of thread for me.

Because I expressed my view and I like that God focuses on the individual and the family because cultures are constantly changing.

The Greek word in the bible means "mutual submission". I interpret that as cooperation. So what if God designates a leader for those times when the division of labor isn't enough?

So if a men treats a women equally their not focusing on my family. Got it.

You cant have mutual submission and a leader. I guess you can have cooperation and a leader. But it is an unequal relationship. If that your thing go for it.

Also you can keep saying you cant have cooperation in an equal relationship but my experience tells me otherwise. So yeah...

Why do atheists constantly paraphrase things theists say and paraphrase them inaccurately.

Oh well....reading comprehension problem, I guess or atheist indoctrination.

Oh and you can have mutual submission most of the time with leadership at key moments. Happens all the time.

Also I never commented on your ability to have cooperation in an equal relationship. Most relationships are personality dependent.

I added to my post to make it more clear. I dont know if that helps with my atheist indoctrination inaccuracy.

And when that leadership takes over you have inequality.

You have said that with many of your post itt. Without submission you get conflict.

The Bible doesn't say "male chavinism is endemic and women need to beware of it".

The Bible says male chauvinism is perfectly reasonable because God created man as superior to woman, so women need to know their place and not get out of line.

This is a point of view that you agreed with not too many posts back.

You see why this statement has people scratching their heads given the Biblical quotes about woman's inferiority to man posted previously, and your endorsement of that "truth", right?

You're just not being consistent at all.

Either Christian doctrine is that woman is inferior to man, or Christian doctrine can help end male chauvinism. You cannot possibly be claiming both with a straight face, can you?

I'm sorry you can't grasp this and when I want to exit a thread you keep posing questions.

I've already tried to articulate the idea. Its not that hard to understand.

People can interpret the bible as men in the leadership role in the family and the church and then go on to apply it unfairly or in an ungodly way or fairly in a godly way.

Athiets mainly focus on the times where it was applied in an ungodly way. They don't watch Christians to ever be in the right.

This idea is no different than when you go to work. At work there's a manager or a team leader. Either he's a fair manager/leader or he's not. What's hard or contradictory about that? Nothing. It's just everyday ordinary reality.

Oops, fixed my post.

FFS...the Roman Catholic church does not permit women to become priests, or to hold any kind of power within the organization. This has been going on for 2000 years. There are no female bishops, cardinals, and last time I checked, there's never been a female pope.

This church has hundreds of millions of followers. So don't act like we're just focusing on some fringe elements of Christianity when we make arguments that the church is chauvinistic.

It's really the fringe Christian groups who are the groups who are less chauvinist. Mainstream Christianity is inherently chauvinistic. Only a complete idiot would argue otherwise.

Well I believe "chauvinism" is the aberrant form of that headship that God gives to men.

But God gives it. God gives it so God can take it away and give it elsewhere any time he wants.

Hebrews 5:4 "But no one can have the honor of being a high priest simply by wanting to be one. Only God can choose a priest, and God is the one who chose Aaron."

There are many prophets in the bible who are women. IIRC the Judaism 101 site says more women were prophets than men.

Also who do you think brings up the children? Both male and female.

John Wesley was brought up by a God fearing mother of 13 children.

In general men are church leaders but men don't tell God. God can make an exception. That is what the spirit is all about: making exceptions.

If you study the law (please pick up a legal periodical with some title law some time) you will see the law is given then the specific exceptions to each general law are given. But in real life there are so many exceptions that the law obviously can't account for every exception or even every misapplication. That's why people go to court. To argue over and rectify injustices and what they think are violations of the "spirit of the law".

Only unbelievers are still under the law and the law is impossible to keep. Unbelief keeps you under the law.

Believers are under the Spirit.

wow, almost got in all the cliche's:

head explode- check
rambling about how worst post of all time- check
use of brainwash- check (although just forum specific)
facepalm attack-check

you forgot to incorperate cool storty bro and bout tree fiddy

To make the point of splendour more clear or for some ppl more confusing:
If you would offer a man of God the whole world and all its pleasures, he would rather wish his death than taking it.

To make splendour's point more clear: not everyone died. In fact, millions of people are sleeping on the street, lost all their possessions, and are eating only from the hand of helping countries. Thousands of people has lost limbs through amputation without novacaine, and there are a hundred thousand children with no parents.

God doesn't begrudge us pleasure after all he created the world and the senses. Just don't make it the center of your life. When it becomes the center it usually leads to an addiction which is just a form of idol worship because you are living for the addiction then instead of living a true life.

2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."

This thread is so long and old I no longer know which of my points you are referring to.

But its more honest if you ask someone what they mean. I mean you may think sarcasm adds to the thread but it usually ends up in dishonesty because you placed your own misinterpretation over the one of the person you are anxious to rag on.

People do have big miscommunication problems and understanding problems.

Then again if a cheap dig is what you're after. Have at it. Just don't think you're not accountable for it.

I didn't make a cheap dig. I suppose that the sarcasm was there, and even the hardest atheist can agree that death is not a punishment. In fact, if it were between having my arms stuck under a ton of stones for 5 days and losing my arms and death, I consider death a far less "punisment."