Well Christ was pretty radical for his day. Humility wasn't much of an ancient world value until he taught and modeled it.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if he's the first to identify religious hypocrisy and legalism. Christ does it again and again answering the charges and questions of the Pharisees.

Not too many people were apt to challenge a Pharisee in Christ's day.

The bible says God judges the heart not the appearance and Christ said the same. I'd say that's pretty much the opposite of the way the real world works even today.

Probably other examples. But most of the divinity has been obscured by assimilation. We've assimilated all the old Judeo-Christian values so we don't even realize where they came from today.

It seems you didn't understand the question. We are looking for an example of moral lessons that could never have been conceived of by a mortal human being. Surely you don't think it takes divine inspiration to identify religious hypocrisy, since atheists do it all the time. Furthermore a quick look at 'legalism' on wikipedia will direct you to Chinese thinkers that lived hundreds of years before Christ. To rephrase the original question, what moral lesson did we need the bible to teach us that we could never have learned from any other sources?

Actually, it was the Judeo-Christian tradition that assimilated all of the ancient moral values so that some people today don't even realize where that morality originally came from.

You don't think that whether or not Jesus had anything original to offer in the realms of reason, logic, or morality that mere mortals hadn't already figured out for themselves is "that significant a question"?

Seriously?

I've already answered above that "time point" arguments are weak but if you want play the "time point" game you can check out the Yazidi. I'm pretty sure they are much earlier than any of these other groups you want to point fingers at as shaping Judaism. They are a group barely even known in the West but they tell a story with striking similarities to the Genesis creation story.

But once again the time point arguments are weak because they forget/overlook the main player in all events: God, and if he exists he predates everyone. Still its pretty remarkable the Yazidi who are earlier than almost everyone else in recorded history tell a story so similar to the early Hebrews.

just curious how you support the statement. Have you seen some studies that looked at humility in the ancient world?

in other words... she cannot point to anything Jesus said or did that couldn't have been figured out already without god.

He should of said stfu men are talking and quoted 1 Corinthians 14:34-35.

********** DELETE***** I'm taking the advice below .

Ephesians 5:4 (NIV): Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.

Do you also follow this bit of advice from your scripture?

(Deut. 13)

"6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people."

So? Do you actively murder believers in other faiths?

Since you're not incarcerated or dead yourself, I'll assume the answer is "no" and ask why not?

I mean, the Bible is your source for ethical conduct, and this passage is crystal clear on what ethical conduct is regarding members of other faiths. And yet you don't act on it?

Why not?

We've had some scriptural updates since the OT. Besides how do you know spiritual evolution isn't the taming of us over time by God? It doesn't mean he didn't have to protect us or at times act draconian in the incipience of our spiritual evolution. Big things do grow from little things but, of course, little things are much more vulnerable to outside influences then are big things. Plus the big things turn out to be better big things if they grow from less corruptible sources.

Physical evolution may in part be imitating spiritual evolution or going hand in hand so to speak. Did you know originally there was only one blood type. Blood type O. The bloodtype of the Neanderthals which is still among us. Along the way we picked up A. An agrarian harmonious blood type that allowed people to work together more cooperatively. There are other types, too.

Without the civilizing effects of religion modifying us....nurture modifying nature so to speak....what if without that civilizing influence we couldn't evolve to work organizationally with greater and greater efficiency?

What do the verses I quoted above have to do with god protecting us?

So, if I'm following you with the bit about "scriptural updates", you're saying that it was once God's word that his followers should murder all followers of other religions, even if they're family members, but then later on that scripture was changed? Maybe god had "tamed" us enough by that later date that he no longer felt he should require us to murder other gods' followers?

I don't think the word "murder" applies to God ever. So no your paraphrase of my statement is inaccurate. Its a category error to use "murder" in reference to God. I don't think its possible for God to "murder" anyone.

In general atheists don't accept the sovereignty of God in his judiciary capacity which is an extension of his higher status so they keep making this error with the theists posters in this forum.

I didn't say anything about God murdering anyone.

God's commandment to his followers was for them to murder nonbelievers. But in the interest of getting an answer to the question, I'll change the word "murder" to "kill" and ask again:

So, if I'm following you with the bit about "scriptural updates", you're saying that it was once God's word that his followers should kill all followers of other religions, even if they're family members, but then later on that scripture was changed? Maybe god had "tamed" us enough by that later date that he no longer felt he should require us to kill other gods' followers?

Follow up question: Does it not bother you that your loving god ever ordered his followers to kill anyone?

Sorry i couldn't help it it was right there glaring at me.

If God can't deal with evil, who can?

So the followers of other religions are evil and deserve to be killed?

If you read the OT you'll come across the passage that God told the Israelites he was timing their entry into the Promised Land when the other peoples' evil was great. Not because the Israelites had done anything holy to deserve it.

love the evil children so they learn to love?

So do you believe that the followers of religions other than Christianity are evil and deserve to be killed?

Sounds nice but that's not the way the OT played out. The OT records that the Israelites turned away from true worship repeatedly and the reason was the surrounding people influenced them into following their gods.

Manasseh the King of Israel even burned his own children in sacrifice to these other gods.

So how were the Israelites to love these other children when their own parents were sacrificing them and it led to the Israelites sacrificing their own children as well?

Splendour, do you ever make any attempt to answer the actual question that is asked of you?

He asked about GOD loving the evil children instead of killing them. Your response has nothing to do with the question. Again.

How do you know that God didn't love them?

The OT people were living in the world prior to the events of Pentecost. So the solution to God's wrath wasn't available at that time.

You're a parent, right? And it's reasonable to assume that you love your children. Is there anything they could ever do that would make you so angry that you would kill them?

Also, please directly answer the following. No scripture, no deflections, just tell me what you, Splendour, think:

1) Does it bother you that your loving god ever ordered his followers to kill anyone?

2) The last time I asked you #1 above, you responded "If God can't deal with evil, who can?" Do you agree with your god that the followers of other religions are evil and deserve to be killed?

3) If God spoke to you today and told you to kill someone, would you do it?

I don't think a group of children or people for that matter at any point in history were innately evil so i figured with the love of God he could reform them. But if the children of that time were innately evil and God didn't have the power to reform them with love then off with their heads i guess.

On a side note if God wanted his people to have a land of their own and not be influenced by the evilness of the world around them. Maybe he could of given them some uninhabited land separated by water or something instead of ethnically cleansing people from there homes. But what do i know. Hopefully God doesn't give a sign through one of his messengers to revert back to the old ways and remove the bad influences again.

1) No it doesn't. I believe in the sovereignty of God. He judges. He could "execute" but he doesn't murder anyone. He's not a corrupt human being.

2) All people are evil and deserving of wrath. That's why God sent redemption.

3) God wouldn't ask me to do that. Also God is the judge and judges don't murder they pass sentence and sometimes execute people and an execution although a killing is a "just killing" and not an "unjust killing" like a murder.