reminds me of that nonstampcollector video about paying taxes.

"its entirely up to you if you want to pay your taxes...you have free will. but, if you dont pay we're gonna beat you."

thats essentially it. you are free to choose, but if you choose wrong, youre fuct.

As an atheist, I've no idea. There are examples of God reprimanding people in the Bible, but if/how that translates to modern life, I'm not certain, and I think anyone that claims to know with certainty is treading on very dangerous ground, both theologically and morally.

I merely included it as a way that parents keep children in line. If God does the same or not, I don't know. The question of "if you were God, how would you keep your kids in line?" falls on whoever cares to try and answer.

So to clarify, giving someone free will is evil, unless there are no negative consequences for their actions?

well in that case, the analogy really doesnt make a lot of sense.

do you even read the posts you respond to?

he didnt say it was cruel that there were some negative consequences. the consequences of using your free will to defy god arent just any old negative consequences. they are the worst possible things imaginable. an eternity of hell.

even in the flawed justice systems we have on earth, we try to have the punishments fit the crime.

They don't? Maybe thru your pessimestic eyes.

Were you involved with Katrina?

Thats taking it a little far.

The negative consequences are the worst of anything imaginable and you are getting them for something made in "a blink of an eye".

for this discussion, im willing to define evidence as loosely as anyone cares. im even open to it being 100% okay for different people to have different criteria.

my only point here was that, since i personally lack the evidence needed to believe, am i not justified in not believing?

if you felt you didnt have enough evidence to believe, would you still believe?

Depends on how justified your criteria for belief are. Seriously.

I don't know. Almost everything anyone believes fits that description.

wellp, i dont really know where to go from this point...

That is the point.

Wouldn't you? If I made a broad statement such as:

I cannot think of anyone more aware of the implications of modern science than a theist.

You would be right to point out that my statement was over broad. That is the point I was making.

i stand corrected. i probably would say something in that case. point taken.

mmm, nope

You don't even realize how completely ****ed up and sick this point of view is, do you?

stus ******ed trolling has been pretty A+ as of late

I think God felt the government of Haiti (as the poorest nation in the western hemisphere) was ruining the lives of its citizens so it needed a shakeup.

Even if you are going to take this ridiculously short-sighted and non-empathetic view, god still could have designed that into humans to begin with instead of needing hundreds of thousands of deaths in order to coax it out of them.

I cannot stress how completely ******ed this view is

*If something good happens*
Stu: Hey, look at that, praise be to god!
*If something terrible happens*
Stu: No see you don't understand, see those 100,000 people dying because of a disaster that god could have prevented is actually a good thing because everyone bands together to clean up the rubble, praise be to god!

This is all just so comical since in every other thread you tell me that I'm "just making another value judgment." Which is exactly what you are doing here. It's a horrible one by anyone's standards btw.

Any rational person can see that there is absolutely nothing that could ever dissuade you from your desperate and childish beliefs, since you are willing to make up completely insane rationalizations on a whim to protect your super hero.

You just need to believe in something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, you will be satisfied with bad ones. You are desperate and insecure.

I would offer that you're not very good at clarifying.

God's a Mormon obv...thats right Moooorman.

Maybe Catholics are not the Holy than thou religion? Anything with a hierarchy in it is bull. And acting like catholics deserve some extra attention is sick.
Maybe it wasn't punishment(alter boys anyone?)...maybe it was a way out before something worse happens.(end of times idk?)
Maybe the time for him watching over us is over?

Rain falls on the just and the unjust...

GGK

What you dont know is that VooDoo is the number 1 religion in Haiti and Witchcraft.......

This is not calculated in the figures because some do not consider these religions, but they are, they are man made and wrong belief systems......

You have NO ROOM to talk goof........

You do realize that saying this several dozen times in this thread won't make it true, right?