Good luck with your maths.

But Butcho! We need to make silly statements like that, so people can argue about mathematical proof, while Concerto revels in ambiguity and semantics. How else is he going to distract people from the similarity between belief in Christianity and belief in Vampires?

I have to say though. Concerto is probably the worst poster on here. At least with Pletho, Splendour and Gunth, they're completely over the top. Concerto isn't, but always says dumb ****. It's like he's trying to warp the world to fit in with Christianity.

It's not that we his belief in the resurrection is unfounded - we're just have a "naturalistic worldview".
Does logic interfere with my belief in Christianity? If so, let's argue about logic and try to dismiss it!

It's just such a dumb and destructive way to go about defending your faith.

eh, i was just using that as an example.

the nearest star to us is alpha centauri, it's a little over 4 light years away (or 26 trillion miles away.)

the universe is big.

::

to further insulate how far that is, the fastest interstellar spacecraft that is heading away from the earth is the Voyager 1, it goes 38,600mph roughly. it would take the Voyager 1 about 670,000 years to reach our nearest star.

its time mankind sucked it up and admitted we are all alone on this distant rock, no god or aliens to keep us company.

yeah, reminds me of that christian who posted that often times its better to just not respond at all to posts/questions.

1-13: no
14-15: im not believing in sightings/abductions because there is no proof. on the other hand its very unlikely, that earth is the only planet in the universe where life has emerged.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...on%29_001.jpeg

for your imagination

Sir, have you ever wondered how or why humans are alone in this big universe?

no

Christian inspired theist (?)

1. Horoscopes/astrology - no

2. Palm reading - no

Tarot card reading - not in any mystical sense, though I think they're probably useful in a 'trigger subconscious insight' kind of way

3. Other forms of divination of the future -- I Ching, etc. - no

4. Voodoo/curses - no, though I'd be open to some kind of placebo effect.

5. Amulets/crystals with the power to protect or heal - no

6. Ghosts - no

7. Vampires - no

8. Werewolves - no

9. Zombies - no

10. Loch Ness Monster - no

11. Big Foot - no

12. Yeti - no

13. Chupa Cabra - never heard of it, I'm going to go out on a limb and say no

14. UFO sightings - well, yes but I dont think they have anything to do with alien life

15. Alien abductions of humans - no

+1

1 thru 15: No
Mathematics: Yes

Less than a minute; I knew the desired post included the phrase "other gods".

Actually, at least in the U.S., it is the most religious evangelical Christians that are least likely to believe in superstitions like astrology, crystals, etc.

FYP

Atheist...
Do you believe in...

1. Horoscopes/astrology
2. Palm reading/Tarot card reading
3. Other forms of divination of the future -- I Ching, etc.
4. Voodoo/curses
5. Amulets/crystals with the power to protect or heal
6. Ghosts
7. Vampires
8. Werewolves
9. Zombies
10. Loch Ness Monster
11. Big Foot
12. Yeti
13. Chupa Cabra
14. UFO sightings
15. Alien abductions of humans


The funny part is... MANY, and yes I surveyed the entire planet, atheist DO believe in all these things using the exact same reasons believers follow a God.

the fact that they can't see the similarities makes me LOL.


and yes i know I didn't use caps everywhere.

1. no
2. no
3. no
4. no
5. no
6. no
7. no
8. no
9. no
10. no
11. no
12. no
13. no
14. no
15. no

However...I digress and wish to play along so i will answer:

Do you believe in...

1. Horoscopes/astrology
No...this is just a ******ed feeble attempt of glass-seers to extort money from idiots.

2. Palm reading/Tarot card reading
No...see above

3. Other forms of divination of the future -- I Ching, etc.
No...however...they do possess a more "feel-good" possibility to those who do think it works...therefore may be helpful to some.

4. Voodoo/curses
Pfffttt... Ummm. no

5. Amulets/crystals with the power to protect or heal
Only if said amulet has a metallic property that can effect the body

6. Ghosts
Need a definition of ghost first

7. Vampires
ummmmm... no

8. Werewolves
Stop being stupid

9. Zombies
You are no longer allowed to display the UT anything in anything you ever do...ever.

10. Loch Ness Monster
Yes

11. Big Foot
No

12. Yeti
No

13. Chupa Cabra
Yes...i actually saw one in the Central Park Zoo.... not kidding at all.

14. UFO sightings
No...unless you want to talk about perspective.

15. Alien abductions of humans
No

in other news, the sky is blue.

wow. nice picture

Since this thread went to the dogs with ******ation in argumentative form, I decided to rank these in order of awesomeness instead.

Disclaimer: Vampires are last on the coolness scale due to the Twilight series, don't blame me.


1. Zombies
2. Voodoo/Curses
3. Ghosts
4. Yeti
5. Alien abductions
6. Werewolves
7. Loch Ness Monster
8. Chupa Cabra
9. Big Foot
10. Divination
11. Tarot
12. UFO sightings
13. Amulets/crystals
14. Horoscopes/astrology
15. Vampires

Is there concrete proof for the letter N?

Yes/no would be the best, but if you need to elaborate that is understandable.

I think Concerto's point is nitpickery but true nonetheless. There's isn't a concrete proof for mathematics (and logic). Mathematics (and logic) is some of the machinery we require to prove something formally in the first place. Justification ends somewhere and maths and logic is a good candidate for that. The foundations of mathematics are just more or less assumed, though there's a great consensus that it's true, which is why it doesn't belong to the list.

OP should've said it's a list of things typically considered to lack epistemic justification to avoid Concerto's objection.

Well, being an educated man in how the brain works...everything is a symbolic representation, so this isn't as clearcut as a lot of people think it is. There is no superior "empirical realism" to observing and conjencturing about something using colours than it is to do so with numbers.

The number "1" is just as real as the one computer screen you are looking at right now, insofar as both are a mental construct your brain generates. You could claim that "but my computer screen is one specific thing", which if you stop to think about it could only be true if the observer is regarded as identical in all cases...which is obviously not true.

Merely from reading this post (and taken a step further, merely by experiencing) you aren't the same observer of your computer screen you were 1 minute ago, so the only computer screen we can reliably claim to talk about is a mental representation/two mental representations.

So what exactly is "concrete proof" and how is this some grand objection to anything? Even if you argued that the OP is poorly worded as belief is used with some haziness, the exact same thing goes for this socalled "concrete proof".

It is obvious the OP's post goes towards the soundness of beliefs, not towards some ultimate realism...and yes, it could have been worded with more precision and yes the objection was nitpicking...but the objection was ultimately paradoxal nitpicking...which is a bad kind.

google data om nom nom nom nom

I have had extremely vivid recurring dreams about werewolves my entire life, ever since I was probably like 5 or so imo. I have had some horrid, horrid,, ****ng god damn scary ass werewolf dreams.


NOTHING I ever dreamed before

has ever been nearly as frigthening as dreaming about being abducted by aliens. for srs. I wish that dream upon no one!


scariest ****ing **** i ever experience imo. i woke up ****ing gasping for air. literally couldn't breath. was ****ing ****ED in panic man. it was ****ing. nuts.


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So you're saying astrology and palm reading are like some kind of religion?