What is consciousness? Can a supernatural being have this property? How?

Something aware of its existence. According to a lot of people, supernatural beings can have it. Why wouldn't they?

Do you have consciousness? Where does it come from? I promise this is going somewhere. What must you possess to be aware of existence?

Yes. I don't know, probably chemical reactions. I don't know, probably a brain. This, of course, does not mean that one cannot have consciousness via some other means.

Like what? Describe how a supernatural being can have this property. Tell me the mechanism.

I don't know. How could I do this if I do not even know what the mechanism is that allows us to be conscious? Maybe we do have souls. Maybe a supernatural being would be something similar to a soul. Maybe our consciousness is a result of chemical reactions within our brains, but consciousness is also possible via other means (eg. maybe we do not have souls, but a soullike supernatural being can also exist and be conscious).

Hold on let's rewind a few steps. You stated that consciousness is "something aware of its existence." What do you mean by something? In relation to the supernatural I mean. You say the soul. That it is "something" like a soul. I don't know what a soul means. What are you referring to? Start by describing the soul. Or God.

Shouldn't you leave those definitions to the theists guys?

No.

Are you a weak atheist with regards to square circles?

I just thought it funny to see two atheists arguing over the definition of the soul. Well, I guess its kind of like auguring over how Harry Potter's cloak makes him invisible.

Consciousness is the ability to feel pleasure and pain.

An intelligent being with no physical or temporal existence yet able to interact with the world in some way. (This might include ghosts or something as well I guess but I dont think that matters).

A being that does not exist yet is able to interact with the world?

HUH???

I think where vixticator is going with this is, that in order to claim supernatural beings are possible, you have to show that imaterial existence is a meaningfull concept.

Arhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh h.
you beat me to the punch, why can´t I ever be the hero?

Clearly a theist believes there are more ways of existing than just physical. If you hold that materialism is true then I doubt the concept of God makes any sense. Beginning from materialism assumes the conclusion.

Yes - if you assume materialism, supernatural beings dont exist by definition.

Yes, I'm not doing the greatest job here. Somebody who can explain it better feel free to take over! I believe that supernatural beings are the same as square circles, you can't be a weak atheist about them unless you believe that the concept is meaningful. If you think the concept is meaningful then theism is probably more rational.

edit: Er, maybe not the last sentence. Unicorns are possible but you shouldn't believe they exist. So, never mind that.

I guess it is hard to take it much further than this, but what I don´t understand, is how theists imagine immaterial existence works?
How exactly does "having no physical or temporal existence" differ from just not existing?

I suppose you could say my question just shows I am a materialist, but I really cannot think of an answer to this question that makes sense.

This deserves a new thread imo

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...e-gods-671300/

A square circle is a logical impossibility. The supernatural is not.

I've also hypothesized that if the supernatural (or gods) exist, then it fits somehow. Even if we don't currently understand how. So I can think that it is possible without thinking it likely. Not sure if I'm addressing your question or not.

I think this is a very important topic; it seems to hold the best argument in favor of the strong atheist stance.
You claim that the concept of a supernatural realm is not meaningful, and if a theist is able to explain why it is, I will go back to being a meek and soft atheist.

I think you were more correct before the edit.
"you can't be a weak atheist about them unless you believe that the concept is meaningful. If you think the concept is meaningful then theism is probably more rational." This makes total sense.
If unicorns or ghosts are possible...what's the harm in believing they exist?

I'm not suggesting you buy a farm and plan on raising unicorns when you catch one...but just saying "I believe it's possible they exist"...no harm.

Well to give some other less contentious examples of things I think exist without any physical or temporal existence:

Pi
Middle Earth
Possible worlds
The argument modus ponens
The subjective component of seeing red

I think these things are qualitatively different from a table, heat or a particular brain state associated with being in love (all of which I consider physical). I think we interact with these things via thinking and exactly how is a mystery - the fact I can't account for it doesnt imply to me that I must be wrong, merely that I dont know the answer yet.

Materialism seems to me to be jumping the gun - we are making progress at explaining the mind, therefore we will eventually be able to explain why seeing the colour red seems exactly as it does and not the way it is when we see the colour blue. We will be able to give a good physicalist account of the semantics of uncountably infinite sets or rational numbers.

Perhaps such a thing is possible - in which case I would agree that Gods dont make sense. It's certainly rational to hold the view and from a pragmatic viewpoint is far superior. Nonetheless, it's not yet established as a fact.

EDIT: I posted in the new thread if it's better to discuss it there..

True, but we only know of pi and the argument modus ponens because they have been formulated in the human brain, and, more importantly, they can only affect our world via the actions of humans, so despite these ideas being immaterial in nature, they need help from the physical world to have effect.
God on the other hand, can supposedly think and affect the world directly without having physical presence.
I still do not see the mechanism.