First off, let me say that I don't think I have ever had a genuine spiritual experience. I have tried many times, but nothing. Those who claim to have had spiritual experiences seem to be very good at making those of us who don't feel like we're lacking something significant.

So I have to ask...

How would you be able to differentiate between:

A) An experience that puts you in contact with some outside source (e.g. creator of the universe, God, etc.).
and
B) Using your imagination to the point that it feels like you're in contact with some outside source (e.g. creator of the universe, God, etc.).

?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you can "try" to have a spiritual experience. And for the sake of arguing I will say that you first need to believe you have a spirit before you can have a spiritual experience.

The significance you're lacking would be God.

In my opinion the difference is in the “using your imagination” part. I would say that one typically doesn’t use their imagination when experiencing what would be a spiritual experience. Rather, it just comes to them.

A spiritual experience might leave the individual with a sense of truth. And it is this awareness of knowledge, or enlightenment, that can justify the experience as spiritual. It can be described as a brief moment of oneness, or connection, with God. And afterward there’s a type of security you’re left with, knowing that, well, you know. It’s a very powerful thing to go through, but like I said, one needs to be able to accept the fact of God before one can listen to him.

I have had experiences like these while in the shower. The shower is where I do a lot of my thinking and praying. I have had times where I was sitting in thought and a half hour passes before I realize that I was in the presence of a higher knowledge. During that time the world has been shown to me with such clarity that I am able to understand the faults of Man (and more particularly myself) with such precision that correction becomes a must. These are not instances of being told, but being shown. And when you “see”, you believe. Quite simply, this knowledge can come from nowhere else but God. I surely didn’t have it before I took the shower.

This doesn't make sense though. People aren't born believing they have a spirit, they need to be taught (indoctrinated, if you will) to believe it.

Are you denying spiritual experiences to those who were never taught this belief? Because that would be a HUGE case against anything "real" happening.

I would say that most people have an innate sense of their spiritual self and it's not something that they're taught. Atheism is probably one of the few beliefs where you're required to deny this though. Because if there's spirit life then there must be God right?

I doubt any belief is "required" for atheism. Sam Harris is a spiritual atheist. I'm pretty sure that spirituality and religion and God are all mutually exclusive.

No. You can't have God win by default without any supporting evidence. Here's why:

Let's say there's a murder trial and I put you and someone else on the witness stand. If the other person has rock solid alibis, it must have been you right?

Just to be clear, atheism is not a belief and it doesn't require you to deny or reject anything. The only thing I personally choose to reject as an atheist is irrationality.

I'm pretty sure they're not.

Why does it have to be me?

Although I'm an atheist, I think I've had a few experiences that I would describe as spiritual. They occurred when I was a Christian, but were not linked to Christianity in any way.

A spiritual experience can never be experienced with the mind, thats why its a spiritual experience.

I want to hear more.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be tricky but I don't understand this comment. Everything is experienced throught the mind or else we wouldn't be aware of it. IMO.

This.

How many people do you know that can succesfully describe their spiritual experience?
I would guess not many if any, as the one telling the experience will have to use his mind in order to try to explain the unexplainable. Words at best can only get close to it. The person describing their experience never feels satisfied with what they have expressed as they know it's not a complete description.
People with dangerous jobs often get these experiences without ever knowing what came upon them to do what they did. Had they thought about it(with their mind) they most probably would have acted differantly. Plus these people for instance, they don't put it down to having a spiritual experience. They think nothing of what they did as extraordinary when they did it, not till later reflecting on what they did do they then use the mind which cannot fully grasp what happened. just as one example;firemen.

Ok I see where you were going with that comment and yes, I agree. I broaden the variety of spiritual experiences though to include some that are comprehended in mind.

A) Whats outside is also inside, so is it outside? In other words is there anything out there to reach for?

B) What cannot be explained with words, is often put down to the imagination.

You claim, to have tried many times to get a spiritual experience but nothing. I believe this is the case for when you have tried. But I also believe you have had spiritual experiences but are not aware of them. I will go as far as to say that when they have occured you have tried to understand it, but quickly realizing that you did not understand, you fobbed them off as imagination and quickly forgotten all about it. Also I will add, that this would have occured when you did not TRY.

There are no flavours, only when YOU do not exist do (you) have an experience. This will sound completely nuts I know.

But you might feel what it is being said and maybe resonate with it.

QFT

I think I'm with ya on this. Remember that in my post I said there are times when I have "zoned out" for a half hour or so only to realize that I was in the presence of a higher knowledge. And only then did I realize what just happened to me. Maybe you would categorize these occurrences as something different then me? Visions?

I would say that visions, enlightenings, spiritual experiences = same

Don't try to "have spiritual experiences," just try something else. For example, try to calm yourself. Just to be at peace, and calmly observe. Or, uh, drugs.

You can't. But such experiences can be powerful. I've never been in love, but it sounds similar from what I've heard. That is, it seems so real to you, that how could it not be? Nobody has ever felt anything that strong, if they tell you that it's just youth, they clearly don't understand. They couldn't say that if they had ever felt this way!

It's possible for spiritual experience to seem much more "real" than ordinary external reality. This results in the irrational tendency to believe that the spiritual experience represents reality.

It depends how you define spiritual experience. I have had several that I would call spiritual, some in a drug induced state and some sober. The one that most often gets me is actually kind of strange. It usually happens when I think about something thats difficult to grasp, like the universe.

I'll start a train of thought, and then i'll start connecting dots about our place in the universe, and slowly the sensation of "awe" just snowballs. Then I have an awe orgasm. Literally. It's like a mind explosion. The awe builds up exponentially... kind of like how the sensation of fear builds up when you have a panic attack and reaches a climax, the sensation of awe builds up when i'm having this spiritual experience. It's so powerful that I completely forget about what I was thinking about... I'm only ever able to remember the rough details. I've had it about 5 times while high (on marijuana) and 3 or 4 times sober. Its like eureka that I can never remember.

Spirituallity to me is just an epically profound feeling... and that feeling can be anything. So seeing someone die can be a spiritual experience (so long as it evokes a profound feeling), the first time you have sex can a spiritual experience (so long as it evokes a profound feeling, fundamentally different than any other time you had sex.... for example you'll probably never feel quite like you did the night you lost your virginity), skydiving, etc.

i have had many spiritual experiences. most of them happened when i was young 5 and 6. my grandfather was a pastor and he owned a church. at that point in my life i was living with my grandparents. he was very dedicated and worked at the church every day. he would visit people and try to help them. he would pray for them and some of them would be healed.

there are relatives in my family that testify that many people were healed in my grandfather's church. some were even healed by my grandfather by the power of the holy spirit. i was so young then that i didn't recognize the healings and i can't say that any of them registered in my mind except for one.

there was an old lady that asked my grandfather to pray for her at her house. I went with him that day to visit. as we were their talking my grandfather asked me to pray for this woman to be healed. usually he did it so i was surprised. so i prayed for her. when i thought i was done he instructed to say it again and then use the name of Jesus. so i said it again in the name of Jesus. immediately her behavior changed. she was happy and jumping around. i didn't know what was wrong with her before i prayed, but after the prayer she was laughing and said to me "you did it. you healed me!" i quickly replied "it wasn't me, it was Jesus!"

For some reason i said that. i knew that i couldn't take the credit for it, so i wasn't going to say that i did it. I had prayed the first time but nothing happened. After I prayed the second time I used the name of Jesus and she said she was healed. That was all I knew.

She was healed and my grandfather told that story to everyone in the family. he told that story to everyone who would listen. i remember his face being shocked when the old lady said she was healed. i felt pretty good that day.

One night I was at my grandfather’s church. I was sitting in the back row goofing off. In the back there were doors that led to the outside. They had 2 little windows that were in the shape of diamonds. I decided to stand up on the pew and look out. I was looking and then became shocked and surprised. What I saw was a figure in the shape of a human, but it was more like a shadow. It was outlined by 2 different colors. On one side the color was blue and on the other it was red. It seemed to be walking into the church. When it became aware that I saw it, the shadow stopped in its track. Immediately stepped back and walked around the entrance.

I was 5 or 6 and seeing something like that didn’t seem strange to me at all. I wasn’t sure what it was, but it didn’t seem evil to me and didn’t seem to want me to notice it.

Two years ago I woke up from a sleep and I had been dreaming. I was dreaming and everything felt so real. Very weird, in the middle of the dream I realized that was I was seeing was a memory. I woke up gasping for breath and felt chills all over my body. I HAD REMEMBERED WHAT I HAD FORGOTTEN! In the dream I was in my grandfather’s church. I was a child. My cousin and grandfather were at the pulpit and they were starting the singing session before the actual worship. My cousin was asking my grandfather about angels, how she wanted to see some. My grandfather was known for seeing angels. He called these angels “Angels unawares” because they were always around us but no one could see them.

My grandfather told my cousin, “If you wanna see them ask God to see them.”
I remember saying to my grandpa, “I wanna see them too.” He couldn’t hear me the music was too loud. While I was looking at my cousin she started tearing up and saying “thank you God, thank you Jesus.” I looked at my grandpa and saw that he had stood still. I turned around to see what they were viewing and was astonished and scared at what was happening. I saw these shadows that were walking into the church. There was one that was taller than all of them that seemed to be giving directions. The smaller ones were walking down the rows touching all of the people on their heads and then walking out of the church.

Two years ago I went to my cousin’s house and started talking to her about my grandfather and how he saw angels. She said, “I’ve seen angels in that church. There was this one night at the church while I was getting ready to sing, I asked grandpa if I would ever see angels. He told me to ask God if he would do that for me. That same night I saw them. They were like shadows that walked into the church and they started touching everyone’s heads walking up and down the rows. Grandpa called them angels unawares.”

These aren’t all of the memories I have. There are more that I can recall. Things that were witnessed by my grandfather, cousin and uncle. We all remember seeing the same things. What puzzles me is how I could have forgotten about all of it, but then begin to remember them all after almost losing my life in Iraq.

Wow..

Neither have I.

This is something that I actually think about a lot. There have been times where I have been "touched" by something that felt like it could possibly have been a spiritual experience. But then I just cannot get around that we all know our minds play weird tricks on us, and I really cannot get myself to even trust that I would know the difference.

People always say things like "then God told me that I should do this" or "I prayed and God led me to do this", but how the heck can you tell the difference. I have never heard any other voice but my own.

I did have one experience when I was probably 13 or so, but it is so long ago now I doubt what did or did not happen even though it was clear as day then.

I just have to be honest on this subject.

I had a spiritual experience. I know it wasn't in my imagination because AFTER it occurred, I found corresponding evidence in the bible that verified it. How could I have dreamed it up on my own, when the bible is clearly speaking to me that what I experienced is "real"?

By the way, I'm not even christian. All I can promise is that there is something to religion. I don't know if it means that *Judeo-Christian*'s have the correct "truth", but there is more than just the physical world. Something else is going on. Call me crazy, I don't care, but I am 100% absolutely certain of it.

Most people interpret intense emotions or other strong feelings of awe or wonder as spiritual experiences because they have been condition to think of them as 'spiritual' or 'religious' by the cultural they are brought up in. This is probably universal accross all human societies. For example, a person form Northern Thailand may interpret some intense feelings as a sign from Buddha, a person from central China may experience a overwhelming peace and think it a visitation from a Taoist folk god, a young peasant girl from France may have a vision and interpret it as the Virgin Mary and so on and on and on. There are a myriad of spiritual experiences reported by people the world over from Africa to Australia and at most it only proves the human capacity for imagination, and also credulity; especially if such experiences are reference only within the framework of their own time, place, cultural, and ‘religion’.

-Zeno