The governor of Texas issued a Proclamation last year calling on Texans to pray for rain during a drought:

http://governor.state.tx.us/news/proclamation/16038

I'm curious as to what Cwocwoc believes is the intent of Christians who pray for sick and/or dying loved ones? If they do not believe that god might intercede and perform a miracle, why are they bothering to pray?

They are Whackos? But Cwocwoc believes in respecting religious views so he would mean whacko respectfully.

It's for something to do when faced with dire situations which are beyond their control. Nobody expects miracles.

not "expecting" miracles isn't quite the same as disbelieving in the possibility of miracles. I know for certain that both the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches believe in the miraculous and in in Divine Intervention. Across the wide spectrum of Protestant churches I'm not as sure but I know at least some do.

It is plainly incorrect to argue that modern theists are all actually deists and would preclude the possibility of Divine Intercession in the world

"Nobody"?

That's just not true. Many many Chrisitians believe in miracles and expect them to occur as well as attribute certain events to God. I grew up around a wide variety of Christians and it was not until a few years ago that I actually heard of Christians that did not actually believe that miracles occurred (either past or present)

Now that is not the same as someone believing that all things that happen are attributed to God. So it is very possible for someone to believe that Sandy was not sent by God nor did God have any participating actions involved while still maintaining that God in fact intervene at times, which would be classified as a miracle.

My REAL LIFE experience of Christians is that they pray and believe God answers prayers i.e. God is intercessionary.

Let's sum this up:

Cwoc says the standard Christian and Muslim viewpoint is that God is not intercessionary. Cwoc provides no evidence whatsoever to back this up except his personal experience that no-one states God sent Hurricane Sandy, but it turns out lots of people think God sent Hurricane Sandy. Regardless that Cwoc is wrong as usual, this is a side issue because Cwoc is making a claim which is untrue about religious beliefs and cannot back it up with any evidence.

I have no idea what you mean by this. Are you claiming I planted 200 million Google hits?

wtf is that supposed to mean?!

As for living in the real world, you repeatedly demonstrate that your world view extends as far as you can see but no further. You don't seem to be able to fathom the idea that most of the world does not live in a privileged and educated area like you. According to wikipedia, the Top Ten countries of Christians are as follows:

1 USA 249,400,000
2 Brazil 175,700,000
3 China 150,959,000
4 Mexico 107,095,000
5 Russia 105,775,000
6 Philippines 90,530,000
7 Nigeria 80,281,000
8 Congo 68,558,000
9 Italy 54,070,000
10 Ethiopia 54,978,000

Given that number one, the USA, is relatively well educated, how does that bode for the poorly educated countries that follow?

For a godless pit of athei-commie-nazis, there sure are a lot of Christians in China

I'm a little sceptical of that number...though it would still only be 10% of their population.

Prayer and healing has become very muddy water. The problem is largely with Christians poor theology and Christians misinterpreting events.

There are many Christians who do pray for miraculous healing. As you know rarely does a miracle healing take place. I do believe God on occasion will heal someone via a miracle.

Getting healed from cancer with chemo therapy doesnt count as a miracle.
Having a safe trip whether by car or plane doesn’t count as a miracle.
I am probably preaching to the choir on this. I disagree with fellow Christians on this topic all the time. We cannot go around claiming a miracle occurred when something unlikely happens. Unlikely events are not miracles, miracles are impossible.

When my Dad was sick in ICU after a heart attack I prayed for him for healing. My Dad got better and is fine now. I am thankful to God that my Dad recovered but I don't claim any measure of miracle.

I have heard the underground Evangelical Christian community is very large. They have a house church model over there that is growing rapidly. Can’t vouch for numbers though.

Then what use was the prayer—being cathartic?

EDIT: Or are you perhaps saying that intervention doesn't necessarily equate a miracle?

I don't think catarthic is a word. At least not in the US, where cathartic is a word with at least 2 meanings.

I also don't think your post is an answer.

In case you didn't put that together, you avoided the question and you're wrong. Is there any value to your post?

Back at you.

Are you seriously claiming that you didn't delete that post and ganstaman created it out of thin air?

EDIT: Wow, Cwocwoc just deleted his post claiming he didn't write what ganstaman quoted.

It has the same purpose as wishing for good luck.

catharsis as a treatment for constipation is cracking me up.



I can't find the reference right now but besides the psychological connotation of purging negative emotions/trauma you may find it interesting to know that in eastern orthodox teaching "catharsis" is seen as the first stage of the spiritual journey, in which the aspirant seeks by grace to struggle against negative passions (read: vices or habits or ways of thinking). It is a process of purification

We already understand that you somehow (wrongly) believe that the majority of Christians don't believe in intercessory prayer...you don't have to keep repeating it. No one agrees with you.

It seems you agree with me that your post was bad, so I don't know what else to say to you.

Except the Christian LemonZest. They are not stupid they know that miracles happen rarely if at all. In practice we have a non-interventionist God.

Seems timely to quote this question. Christian dogma, preachers' unwise remarks, definition of 'cathartic'...0 for 3 in this thread alone.

It was intended as a joke but I deleted it long before your reply.

if we're making a list of exceptions I guess you can add me to it cwocwoc