ARGO ?

Actually it was over my last post. So we will see what follows

Lol, of course I hadnt read this post yet

I see, and what have you taught them about Cheondoism, or Islam? Or have you only concentrated on the religion you personally think has it all right?

Meh, I wouldn't call that 'improving', more like attempted proselytizing.

I always find it hypocritical when an atheist tells a Christian what they believe in especially when the atheist is a player.

Personally I have never definitely made up my mind that poker is wrong.

It is a game of skill with a very big gambling element especially in NL Hold'em.

But if you think your skill alone controls the game and God doesn't control the luck then you're wrong imo.

Of course, atheist players would hate to see the game dry up from a lack of players or money but they just can't seem to help themselves from getting nasty with Christian poker players and driving that judgmental knife in their back without even ascertaining if that person considers poker a sin or not.

I am still on the fence. I admit I could do more with my time than play poker but how do I know God didn't give me the skill to play poker as a reprieve.

Proverbs 16:33: The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD.

Besides imo a good bit of life is gambling.

As George "The Engineer" Epstein once wrote: "I would maintain that poker is very much a "game" of investing. If you invest your money wisely, there is a better chance of success - a return on your investment (ROI), or a Positive Expectation if you are playing poker. But there is no assurance of success, you could lose! (Just think of the recent IPO of Facebok which today has less than half the value of its original stock price.) Does any court of law question the legality of making an investment in the stock market or a business enterprise. For that matter, if you engage in some form of sports, you risk being seriously injured. Who would even consider ruling college football an illegal activity? Surely, you and your teammates need to be skilled to win the football game: but still you take the significant risk of injury. For that matter, you accept risk - the chance of injury - when you drive your car out of the driveway; even when you, as a pedestrian, walk across the street." -end quote from The Player's Voice! Poker Player Magazine

Note in college football players are taking a risk but do they see a payoff for that risk? No, the universities rake in the royalties from the college players risk.

I prefer to think of it as 'chance' or 'probability' rather then the mysterious concept of 'luck' but I've never encountered anyone before who thought that the Christina god controlled luck. (I've typed 'christian' so many times in the last month that I've developed the habit of typing 'christina' somehow. I think I may just call your god Christina from now on.)

Christina controls luck. That poses so many questions I wouldn't really know where to start. Really, truly, out there.........


I don't know, it must be awful trying to second guess god all the time.

Whether it's luck or probability really doesn't matter.

I saw a person do a chip and the chair thing once and win 12 grand when they really needed the money and I think God was looking out for that person.

I've seen too many strange things on the table to think God isn't behind some of them.

Some people go on unbelievably "lucky" jags....I don't think it's just probability.

The ancient Hebrews used to cast lots to consult God. They called it the Urim and Thummin.

We're the idiots that think God isn't observing or capable of manipulating a poker game.

What name do you play under?

Yes of course, while children are beaten and abused or starving to death, god was helping someone win a poker tournament.

Totally understandable.


Just gonna let that one speak for itself.

Lol...people aren't bigger fish because they believe God can make a statement through a poker outcome. It isn't a signal that someone doesn't know the odds behind a play.

It could be the opposite.

Tell me why your god would allow children to suffer horribly whilst helping someone win a poker tournament, you can't dodge all the awkward questions.

I don't believe in making comparisons like that. It is a very bleak way to look at life.

If you read the bible though it says God can move the universe on a person's behalf. You don't think he can move a little thing like a poker table?

He can move it.

He probably looks out for a lot of atheists. It says he lets the rain fall on everyone.

Just some people will acknowledge the rainmaker and some won't.

You're suppose to say "Lord willing...so and so will happen."

Nothing really relies on us but everything is in God's hands.

You don't know that that child in misery won't some day be a millionaire.

Also it's well known that a lot of people living at a subsistence level are sometimes happier than people that supposedly have everything.

Irrelevant. Explain it.

Look at the human brain. You can depress your own mood by what you focus on. It has an affect on your brain's ability to wire itself.

When I reflect on God though I only think of Him in praiseworthy terms and my outlook is positive.

If something bad happens then it's a momentary blip on the radar that makes life more interesting. But in the end people can overcome everything with God's help....That is a central message of the Gospel. Death is the biggest bad beat that can be put upon a person and through Jesus Christ's work on the Cross we are allowed to beat it through a future resurrection.

I don't need to get hung up on other people's bad beats though I could help them find the way out of them.

That's what Jesus Christ does. He let's everyone survive the biggest bad beat they will ever experience in a lifetime.

there is biblical evidence that god controls games of chance. i've brought it up before but aaron thought it was "theological nonsense." splendour is right on this one.

This has nothing at all to do with your god allowing children to suffer horribly but helping someone else to win a poker tournament.

I don't think you can explain it, you're evading the question, and deep down inside you know it's BS.

Aaron is right on this one.

Pretty obviously so, really. God controls everything - of course he makes red come up, the coin land on tails and ensures someone gets dealt the hand they do. Anything else is just rejecting the premise of omnipotence.

Huh? Omnipotence denotes that God is able to control everything, not that he does control everything. Unless, of course, you mean that he 'controls' a coin flip in the sense that he set up the physical laws that control its outcome.

I don't agree - i think god is assumed to control every subatomic event. your distinction between being able to and actually choosing to is a mirage. If he chooses things to be this way instead of some other possible world, he has controlled everything.

Note that this view is implicit in your recent critique of nooberftw's position regarding gods responsibility or otherwise for our evil nature - "if god wanted things to be different, they would be" = "god chose things to be as they are".

I don't think this makes much sense. For instance, in the deist God model, this would mean that God did not, in fact, leave the universe alone after setting its laws in motion. He had to remain, constantly tinkering and controlling every subatomic event and coin flip.

I think we're just disagreeing on what denotes 'control'.

The deistic "set and forget" is just one method of controlling everything. He's still made a choice (and given omniscience, knowing full well what the outcome is) as to how every subatomic event will unfold. Furthermore, he could set up the rules so that any given subatomic event occurred differently.

The two are functionally identical.

You've changed my mind; I agree.

EDIT: I was viewing 'active' and 'passive' control as being fundamentally different, when well, they're really not.

And here's me getting all fired up.

Not quite God is non-interventionist in this world. You get what you deserve in the after-life.

Well you're an atheist, you would think that.

It's an unusual theist who thinks God is non-interventionist. Christianity is basically all about his intervention. Similarly with pretty much any revealed religion - who did the revealing?

That was then and this is now. Not many Christians, Muslims or whatever attribute whatever happens in this world to direct acts of God. They expect to get divine justice in the next one.