The Socratic method as it pertains to Veganism - Page 4 - Religion, God, and Theology

Notice how this continues to demonstrate that you lack an argument, and you're merely trying to use moral shame to effectuate a change in behaviors. As I noted, it's kind of the way that religious nutcases work.

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11-30-2019 , 08:42 PM

#77

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by rjr777

Living and breathing as in sentient beings with a central nervous system and lungs...

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Originally Posted by rjr777

we must also save all the unborn baby humans. I think a baby’s life is still worth more than an animals life.

Babies don't breathe oxygen until after birth. Sentience in babies isn't measurable until months after birth.

Therefore, it's okay to eat them as long as you kill them before it's too late.

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11-30-2019 , 09:27 PM

#78

rjr777

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Originally Posted by Aaron W.

Do you feel ashamed? That’s almost a Freudian slip... that would mean my original contention of be in a juxtaposition over eating animals exists inside of you. That means the Socratic method is working and you’re seeing the problem with eating meat and not being able to be an animal lover.

So ya I guess I am shaming everyone who’s not vegan to open their mind.

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11-30-2019 , 09:33 PM

#79

lagtight

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I love animals and I love to eat meat. Some animals I love to play fetch with, and other animals I love to eat for dinner.

I'm being flippant because of your moralizing instead of making a cogent argument.

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11-30-2019 , 09:35 PM

#80

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by rjr777

Do you feel ashamed?

No. Do you?

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That’s almost a Freudian slip...

Do you know what a Freudian slip is? Are you sure you're not yourself confirming that you're kind of like a religious nutcase?

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That means the Socratic method is working and you’re seeing the problem with eating meat and not being able to be an animal lover.

No. I have no problem with eating meat and loving animals. I love animals so much that I love them both alive and dead.

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So ya I guess I am shaming everyone who’s not vegan to open their mind.

At least you're willing to admit that you're just trying to apply shame and that you lack an actual argument. How effective do you think it is?

My mind is more open than yours, apparently. I can see your point of view, but you don't seem to be able to see mine. I see your perspective exactly as it is, and you've confirmed that for me. But you just seem appalled and confused by me.

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11-30-2019 , 09:42 PM

#81

rjr777

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Originally Posted by lagtight

It’s not an argument; I’m trying to give you something, I’m trying to plant a seed for you to understand what you are partaking in by eating animal products.

I get the resistance.. I’m basically challenging everyones world view. The things they’ve been taught since they went to school.

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11-30-2019 , 10:08 PM

#82

zica

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Originally Posted by rjr777

You are a mindless robot and have nothing to offer except that with which your masters have programmed you.

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11-30-2019 , 10:48 PM

#83

David Sklansky

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Originally Posted by zica

Eating animals is good because it makes us healthy. There's nothing wrong with killing an animal to eat it, it's good. Why would one disassociate? I bought chicken legs today, they looked good. I don't know about pain, maybe. What does it matter? I don't think pain or suffering are immoral in and of themselves. If one were causing pain for the sake of doing so, that should be illegal, not because of what's happening to the animal but because of what's going on in the head of the person causing the pain.
.

Should bullfights be illegal?

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11-30-2019 , 10:59 PM

#84

zica

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Originally Posted by David Sklansky

Should bullfights be illegal?

I think so. Dog fighting too. I think I would make boxing and mma use headgear to decrease long term harm from concussions.

Is your point that the point of bull fights is to entertain(like, omg, how sick - maybe this is just my modern prejudice and we should have willing humans fight to the death for our entertainment too) and not to cause pain or suffering so my position, expressed thus far, allows for it?

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11-30-2019 , 11:58 PM

#85

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by rjr777

Nah. Really, you're the one who has been brainwashed. You just don't realize it. That's why you can't meaningfully explain your position. Exactly like the religious nut-job. Just believe and your soul will be set free... or whatever.

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12-01-2019 , 01:56 AM

#86

David Sklansky

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Originally Posted by zica

It was unnecessary to include dog fighting based on your previous post. I haven't decided whether to enter this thread in earnest yet to point out flaws in both side's arguments. Not sure Mason is paying me enough.

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12-01-2019 , 02:03 AM

#87

zica

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Originally Posted by David Sklansky

Not sure Mason is paying me enough.

Whatever Mason does will be devoid of sentiment so I'm sure he's making the right decision.

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12-01-2019 , 07:27 AM

#88

rjr777

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Originally Posted by David Sklansky

Do you love animals?

Do you need animal products to survive?

Should we kill things if we don’t need them to survive?

Is our taste and preference a justification to kill and do whatever we choose?

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12-01-2019 , 07:46 AM

#89

rjr777

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Originally Posted by Aaron W.

All you can do is gaslight when I challenge your world view.. twist and tell me I’m a religious nut job... what if I told you I don’t believe in man made religion and I do believe in God.

95% of the western world populace eats animal products.. that number signifies a cultural norm of eating animal products and like minded thinking. The kind of thing you see from years of agendas being pushed. The meat and dairy lobby have been pushing extra hard in the western world. The 95% number is proof that there is overwhelming belief. I wonder how 95% of the populace could agree on anything?

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12-01-2019 , 07:51 AM

#90

rjr777

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Originally Posted by zica

You are a mindless robot and have nothing to offer except that with which your masters have programmed you.

Gaslighting?

No thx

So I’m a mindless robot who thinks for myself and doesn’t go with what 95% of the population in the western world does? Makes sense

You do also realize i once used to eat animal products right? Are robots capable of switching their world view?

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12-01-2019 , 07:58 AM

#91

rjr777

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Originally Posted by lagtight

Vegans on average live 7 years longer according to google what’s more cogent of an argument than you get to live longer

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12-01-2019 , 09:06 AM

#92

lagtight

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Originally Posted by rjr777

Vegans on average live 7 years longer according to google what’s more cogent of an argument than you get to live longer

The bolded is quite a tell. DUCY?

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12-01-2019 , 09:08 AM

#93

zica

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Originally Posted by rjr777

Your position is that people who disagree with you are brainwashed and you can't possibly be wrong. That is ideological commitment and that makes you a mindless robot.

People have made substantive reply's but you just say they're brainwashed. I mentioned the lipid hypothesis, did you already know all about it but didn't bother to reply, did you look it up and think about it? I mentioned eggs and their protein profile, you didn't respond with substance, etc.

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12-01-2019 , 09:10 AM

#94

lagtight

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Originally Posted by rjr777

Vegans on average live 7 years longer according to google what’s more cogent of an argument than you get to live longer

That's a good practical reason to be a vegan. But I thought the thrust of your narrative was the immorality of eating meat, not longevity.

I have also seen studies that show that vegans live longer than non-vegans.

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12-01-2019 , 09:25 AM

#95

rjr777

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Originally Posted by zica

Is it possible eggs have a good protein profile.. sure

Do we need eggs to survive?

Are there other ways to get protein?

Are eggs high in cholesterol? Is there a link between high cholesterol and heart disease?

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12-01-2019 , 09:40 AM

#96

rjr777

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Originally Posted by lagtight

Living longer is a cogent argument for why one should go vegan if it’s true..

Immorality of killing and eating meat when you consider yourself an animal lover is also a cogent argument.

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12-01-2019 , 09:52 AM

#97

rjr777

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Originally Posted by lagtight

I have also seen studies that show that vegans live longer than non-vegans.

Please provide sources

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12-01-2019 , 09:57 AM

#98

rjr777

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

The bolded is quite a tell. DUCY?

You said you also read vegans live longer

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12-01-2019 , 10:04 AM

#99

rjr777

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Guys it’s not about winning the argument... it’s about waking up. If I can ask one right question and it makes one person see the moral hypocrisy of saying that they love animals while creating a demand for the slaughter of animals then I have done what I was trying to do.

Don’t over think it. Don’t get caught up in the minutia.