I guess poker isn't the only subject where people reach the correct conclusion for incorrect reasons.

+1

Let’s get back on track...

A couple questions to ponder:

Do you feel the need to disassociate the dead bird carcass from the piece of meat in your plate?

Does the raw uncooked and unseasoned bird look appetizing?

Does the bird feel pain when it dies?

Does turkey invigorate you with energy or deplete your energy?

Should food invigorate us or cost us energy to break down?

Do people need turkey to survive?

Or just like poker people believe that the game is solved when it’s not

Eating animals is good because it makes us healthy. There's nothing wrong with killing an animal to eat it, it's good. Why would one disassociate? I bought chicken legs today, they looked good. I don't know about pain, maybe. What does it matter? I don't think pain or suffering are immoral in and of themselves. If one were causing pain for the sake of doing so, that should be illegal, not because of what's happening to the animal but because of what's going on in the head of the person causing the pain. Turkey is notorious for making people feel tired because it contains tryptophan(I think) which makes us feel sleepy. When I eat a rare steak, if it's all I eat, afterword I feel good and light and not bloated. No, don't need turkey to survive.

Animals are a resource. If you think this is species-ism, is kingdom-ism any better?

Dogs are an exception. We bred dogs to be our companions and work mates to help us survive in the world. We bred them to be especially loving and loyal. For these reasons, killing them for food should be illegal everywhere except to save a persons life like in a wilderness survival situation but even then, I think that should strike one as a deeply heinous act even though it might be necessary.

I would like for animals to be treated kindly but I don't see it as a moral thing. I would like cattle to be on good clean pasture at least an average of 3 hours/day climate permitting(ie winter doesn't count). This couldn't happen without a law being enacted and would raise the price of beef which is not nice for poor people so it's a tough situation.

If you think eating meat is bad for your health, I disagree and I am not going to get into that conversation but I have watched tons of pro vegan youtube video's and tons of carnivore type videos too.

Other than in some short-handed, shove/ fold scenarios, what "poker people" think poker is "solved?"

Jesus ate meat. Was he doing something immoral by doing so?

Nope.

Yes.

Possibly. But if so, does the bird feel pain when it lives? Is the avoidance of pain the ultimate goal of reality?

On the whole, it gives energy. The tiredness feeling that people experience has nothing to do with the turkey.

https://www.livescience.com/41543-th...ou-sleepy.html

"Should"? Are you pretending as if eating a vegan diet means that your body somehow doesn't use energy in the digestive process?

Do people need to eat a vegan diet to survive?

Ok so let’s not argue semantics..

Start with the health benefits- some have conceded there may be benefits to a whole food plant based diet like living longer usually due to less heart disease...

Now I know people want to argue this so fine let’s move on to ethics

A lot of people are against animal cruelty but are for eating animals. I was just highlighting the fact you really can’t be against animal cruelty and kill and eat them. The logic is pretty sound. You can justify this any way you like.

But let’s say you want to justify this away fine.

Finally we have the real reason I chose to go vegan and it has more to do with waking up and seeing the meat and dairy lobby’s acting very similar to the tobacco and oil lobbies. They all create this dependence on their product and claim all the benefits. Like smoking helps digestion or milk makes bones strong.

This is the one that ultimately convinced me that there’s nefarious men out there that will stuff crap into a McDonald’s burger and sell it to you even if it means it would give you cancer and make you sick as long as they could profit off you.

Aaron and I have answered YOUR questions. Are you going to answer ours?

Not that you have to answer our questions. But not answering shows that you don't want a real conversation.

Please see posts 38,50,55,56,57,58 if you would like to engage us.

If not, that's kewl, too.

Addendum: Zica had some good questions, too, if you would like to share your thoughts on his questions.

Animals are living and breathing plants are not... not sure why this is even a question

I’m fine w lions killing antelope... lions differ from humans in that they are conscious and lacking conscience.

Interestingly enough a lions Short digestive tract and claws and sharp teeth are better designed for eating raw flesh than humans ever could be.

Anecdotely speaking I’ve heard no limit is solved from various sources...

Not sure how my analogy is relevant to slaughtering animals.. I was just making the point that it’s not a give in that eating meat is healthy.

The Bible often uses meat to refer to vegetation.. see genesis 1:29 and 1:30.. I think the word “meat” has been perverted to mean something totally different. It now refers to flesh when before it referred to avocado meat or apple meat.

As far as Jesus goes this is asking a much deeper question. You’re asking if I believe if Jesus was infallible like God. Some people believe Jesus to be God, and or the son of God.

Some people say Jesus had a gf and kids...

For one we don’t know for sure if Jesus ate meat, but let’s say he did, does that mean he’s infallible like God?

I think this comes down to just nobody knows.

I do believe in some spiritual eternal life and an un moved mover God.

So to answer your question if Jesus ate animal products it was most likely due to the fact that it was part of customs for that time but we know better now so it’s still wrong to eat animal products.

I’m not ready to scrap Jesus, Buddha, Ghandi, or anyone for that matter... I think they would all bring positive and good teachings.

Avoidance of pain isn’t the goal... it’s just not possible to kill something in a humane way and with no pain.

Yes the body uses energy regardless of diet... but Meat requires a lot more energy and is tougher to break down and stay in our long digestive tract for a long time.

People need mineral and nutrients to survive. The animal products you’re eating doesn’t even provide all the nutrients and you can still have deficiencies. You’re not assuring yourself that you’re not deficient by eating animal products so might as well not eat them. You will be needing nutrients whether you eat animals or not.

Ok I answered almost all the questions... 55 was kind of unclear to me


So let me ask some more questions now...


Does it bother anyone that there is a meat and dairy lobby pushing their products on us?

Does anyone remember the tobacco propaganda that Doctors were saying smoking was good for you and good for digestion?

Is it possible the milk lobby has been doing similar stuff like the tobacco lobby. Just the public perception of milk is still favorable whereas cigarettes are now unquestionably bad for you?

Does anyone remember how bad eggs and red meat and dairy were for cholesterol and heart disease?

Does the meat and dairy lobby have any personal or financial interest in keeping all of this heart disease a secret?

Plants aren't alive and don't respire? Lol. Maybe you should question your own knowledge.

And yet you're okay with killing plants? Oh wait... you think plants aren't alive and don't respire. Never mind.

"A lot more energy"? "Tougher to break down"? You're saying words, but given that you don't know plants are alive, it's far from clear you even have a meaningful metric to measure these things. It seems to me that you're just making assertions and that you don't have the information/knowledge to back any of it up.

For example, food taking longer to work through the digestive tract isn't even necessarily a bad thing. It gives the body more time to maximally break down and absorb nutrients. If food passes through too quickly, it's just kind of wasted.

Notice how none of this actually addresses anything because the same is true of plant-based diets. In fact, plant-based diets tend to struggle with consuming sufficient levels of protein, and the iron in plants is harder for the human body to absorb compared to iron in animals (heme vs. non-heme).

I get that you feel strongly enough about this stuff to try to sway people, but you would really be far more effective at it if you actually knew what you were talking about instead of just making up stuff off the top of your head. Because right now, you look kind of ignorant, and I daresay kind of like the equivalent of a religious nut-case.

Good, you seem to agree that there is no moral implication simply from the antelope suffering and dying.

I think you're just making stuff up when you say a lion doesn't have a conscience. Are you religious or do you have a religious background?

Regarding physiology is it your position that we "should"(there's that ideological word again) eat a diet that is based on what's been native to us for hundreds of thousands of years(or however long)? If so, consider eggs. Plenty of birds nest on the ground and their eggs fit neatly in one's hand, like an apple. We don't need claws or fangs or speed to acquire them. From what I've seen and based on science thus far, eggs are a complete protein; they contain all(like 10 or so) of the proteins needed for human health plus, if we're wise enough to eat the egg shell, that has a similar mineral profile as our teeth and bones and it's all bio-available/digestible and it doesn't have any anti-nutrients like plants do. I've heard that salmonella, even in an industrial setting, only occurs in 1/10,000 eggs and most people don't eat that many in a life time so we can even eat them raw.

Isn't it true that the human digestive tract is more similar to lions than to cows given that cows actually have structures that humans don't, like a rumen?

Should we consider what appears to be the natural diet of animals that seem closely related to us like the bonobo which is omnivorous?

Living and breathing as in sentient beings with a central nervous system and lungs... ok so plants create oxygen that’s the opposite of breathing.

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree..

You seem entrenched in all these ideas and don’t even want to discuss the fact the meat and dairy lobby are brainwashing us with these ideas since birth.

Keep eating sentient beings you look well informed and so smart

It bothers me that the food pyramid in the US was originally issued by the department of agriculture rather than a health department. That's probably why they said desserts should be part of a healthy diet and that the base of one's diet should consist of grain products. It bothers me that in many states and provinces selling raw milk is illegal. It bothers me that the lipid hypothesis was pushed hard to sell statins and try to get people to eat more grain and it bothers me that a president, in trying to lower the price of eggs, scared the public about cholesterol.

Anecdotely, I've heard that Elvis Presley is still alive.

Oh... lungs are now super-important? That also seems utterly arbitrary.