So do you think plants feel the same level of pain as say a pig or dog or baby?

Do plants have a central nervous system or just “their own kind of nervous system”?

Are you suggesting that plants have feelings?

Not a fan of the sentient idea. Like I said, my experience with animals has shown me animals are far more intelligent than your average study suggests. Same is true for bugs and also plants.

A friend of mine is a biologist / Botanist and he researches exactly what Aaron is talking about. If you are interested Ill share some of their findings.

I claim no knowledge of what other creates experience. I think it's possible.

It may depend on what you think the a "central nervous system" actually is. After all, you seem to have equated the existence of one with sentience. That would be very interesting for you to elaborate on.

I'm suggesting that they respond to the environment around them. I don't claim to know what plants experience.

Animals differ from plants in that they are conscious...

This thread is just meant to show the moral dilemma facing anyone who considers themselves an animal lover or is against animal cruelty* and continues to eat animals.

And you have reached this conclusion because...?

Do you think you're successful?

Having a conversation is a start... I get it you’re not conflicted so why not just move along to next thread?

Maybe because there is a possible argument that we SHOULDN'T be conflicted?

Little derail: Is anyone reading this thread NOT having meat for Thanksgiving Dinner?

Obviously, only applies to those eating Thanksgiving Dinner.

Are you only interested in talking with people who agree with you?

No, quite the opposite, trying to reach out to people who don’t see this yet.

However when I come across someone like you, there’s no point in wasting my time with someone who just wants to argue and derail and obfuscate.

You don’t have to agree with me but please don’t waste my time with any more minutia.

I hope everyone gets that chewy piece of bird tendon that reminds them of what they are actually doing.

If one person realize this thread is a success

Not everyone sees the conflict right away.. sometimes it takes one waking up to realize.. sometimes people never wake up... sometimes people have triple bypass surgery from high cholesterol food causing clots and still never wake up... mostly because they are dead from heart disease

Happy Thanksgiving!


Ps
I’m thankful I was able to wake up and never eat a living, breathing and sentient being again.

Do you believe that making claims like "Animals differ from plants in that they are conscious" are statements that stand unchallenged, or that this claim is somehow "minutia"?

So the core of this is the feeling of moral superiority you get? It's a good thing for you that you can put on those intellectual blinders and ignore science like that.

By science do you mean the propaganda that you gobble up like a thanksgiving turkey?

You do realize the meat and dairy lobby have forced this on you since birth.. I’m trying to wake you up to this realization but for some reason you defend your masters. Well done.

Oooooh... plant science is now propaganda? This is going in a much different direction than I thought.

I was definitely not expecting you to go full conspiracy theory.

The beef lobby generally disagrees with this.

I think it's still an open question of what meat-eaters are "actually doing", from a MORAL perspective.

Jesus unapologetically ate meat. Are you morally superior to Jesus?

1. Happy Thanksgiving to you, too!

2. I'm glad you are more at peace by not eating meat. I am considering going that route myself for health reasons.

The largest department in my local grocery store is the produce section.

Obviously an assault by the Veggie Lobby to brainwash the masses into eating brussell sprouts.

Red wine is good for you. Dark chocolate is good for you. Vegetables are good for you.

A nice compromise would be if animals (at least mammals and birds) were not allowed to be sold for food unless they were treated very well while alive (for at least half their life expectancy) and then painlessly killed. (Also stuff like killing baby male chicks the way they do should be illegal.)

(People who could no longer afford the increased cost would be subsidized by the government.)

I'd have a lot more respect for people that get their panties in a wad over
eating meat, because of the supposed cruelty to animals, if they weren't
(in general) so quick to support the slaughter of unborn baby humans.

You can’t treat something “very well” and kill it.

At first I was ok with people eating whatever they wanted because I thought it was a personal choice etc. but the reality is that there’s a victim involved. A victim without a voice.

I agree.. we must also save all the unborn baby humans. I think a baby’s life is still worth more than an animals life. But just because there are more than one issues in the works doesn’t mean we can’t try to address them all.

I hope I don’t come off as some raging tree hugging animal loving liberal or something.. I’m actually more conservative I just can’t be honest with myself and ignore what I know about the lobby’s, the process, and the health reasons to go vegan.

I lean more apolitical not falling for the 2 party false paradigm.

In case it wasn't clear, I'm suggesting these are all lies.

I try not to be ideological. Rather than say, murder is wrong, I'd rather just say, if you do it we'll put you in a cage for 20 years - like the law. "Right and wrong", I think, must be based on authority or, be arbitrary or, be based on nature but it's hard to see morals there except, most mammals don't predate their own, do care for their offspring, do try to propagate their species.

I discriminate against elk vs humans the same way I discriminate against strangers vs my family; judge away.

Should lions be prevented from killing antelope? Are we animal mind readers that can judge that a lion isn't a "moral agent" and that that makes it okay that the antelope gets torn apart?