I realize that this has been discussed before. But I believe I have a different take on the issue.

Under the premise that pathological gambling is a sin, aren't poker players sinners? After all, problem gamblers can be found at the tables. By playing with them, you are providing them with their fix--it's like selling heroin to a junkie.

Does anyone disagree with my logic?

(Of course, you could disagree with my premise as well. However, the premise seems standard--I browsed a number of Christian websites prior to making this thread and they all come to the conclusion that problem gambling is a sin.)

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...e-time-717270/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...ng-sin-638471/

Good luck convincing the Christians who dont think its a sin that its a sin, and vice versa.

I think bluffing is a sin...but since it is a mathematical part of the game, maybe not.

If poker was a sin, Jerry Yang would not of won the WSOP.

Problem gambling i consider a sin.

There's a verse in the Bible that basically states you can roll the dice, but God controls the outcome.

What if Satan was helping him out? Just to get people like you to think its ok?

I don't see how that matters.

But if you play with problem gamblers you kinda help them commit sin. Not asking this as flamebait. I'm genuinely interested in people's take. I suspect even some people that aren't Christians find it wrong to play against someone who has a serious gambling problem.

I think you are referring to the casting of lots (sorry for being a nit).

I see, you want to know whether your logic is rigorous.
Well, it is my understanding that if you have A as a premise and you then conclude that A is A you haven't engaged in anything other than restating your premise as a conclusion.

Thus, if the premise is that gambling is a sin, then, gambling is a sin. A = A.

Looks good to me.

Are you looking for logical inconsistencies in antigambling forces arguments?

EDIT: oh, I'm sorry. You are saying "if pathological gambling is a sin" then is non-pathological gambling a sin too?
But you are saying that "pathological gambling" is in addition to being a sin , an illness. Otherwise you wouldn't have made the effort to call it "pathological."

Recapping
A= Pathological gambling
B= Regular gambling
C= Sin

A = C, B = C

If Pathological gambling is a sin than providing a poker game enables the commission of the sin. But providing that poker game does not enable the commision of the sin for regular gambling. Unless, we assume that ALL GAMBLING is a sin which again would be a premise and not concluded from the scenario.

Just like providing an All You can eat buffet enables Gluttony. But non-gluttons do not commit a sin when they buy their food at that same All You Can Eat.

I have thought about this, but the way it all played out including the year after, it is highly unlikely.
Uh... what do you think this is...poker is the same concept.

Proverbs 16:33, a few Bibles even say dice.

Not if God controls the outcome.

The premise is NOT that gambling is a sin. The premise is problem gambling is a sin. Another thing that's implicit is that it is wrong to support or encourage others to commit sin. A third assumption is that problem gamblers can be found at poker tables.

I choose the premise that problem gambling is a sin after looking at other threads. Some Christians don't think all gambling is to be treated equal. And I think that's fair to an extent. For example, I don't interpret the Bible as saying "you may not have a small raffle in your church." A raffle is different from a problem gambler that neglects his family and gambles away his house just in the hope of hitting it big.

Hmmm, how so?

The hands he lost were when he started to lose faith, or did not show the same faith. The year after he did not take the same approach and was actually kind of "look at the champ like", and he didn't even make an impact in the tourney.

And when God says you can cast lots/roll dice, but he controls the outcome, then that is the case. It is obvious that gambling in some form is okay in the Bible. There are many verses backing this up. Including encouraging it at some times.

If he said the devil can control the outcome, then that would be a different story.

If you are a Christian, and you are just losing all your money, and it is ruining your life, then i think God is trying to tell you to stop.

I've asked about 8 Catholics when I went through RCIA, including priests and the instructor of RCIA, and they all said playing for a living was fine. Just be sure you are winning and not losing (good advice imo, many losing fish project themselves as winners) if you are playing for income, and playing otherwise is just entertainment.

Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say on it:

2413 Games of chance (card games, etc.) or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement. Unfair wagers and cheating at games constitute grave matter, unless the damage inflicted is so slight that the one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant.

It depends on ones interpretation of the relevant passages of the bible.

I am very interested in how you can interpret those verses besides what they are saying.

LOL. Are you for real?

Why are you in a thread regarding if it is a sin to play poker, when you don't care what God has to say about the issue?

I believe there is another thread about this same topic that is more for you Wamy:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...-wrong-788961/

Personally, to see who the whackjobs are.

if you consider poker some form of gambling, then you must consider it some form of sin. To deny this just means you are interpreting the bible in a way that is most comfortable to you. (its curious that only poker players think poker isnt a sin, or that smokers think that smoking isnt a sin, or that alcoholics dont think drinking is a sin, etc, etc)

Gambling is not a sin in and of itself - anymore than smoking or drinking alcohol are sins in and of themselves. It is not morally evil to drink a beer. However, if it injures you or others around you it is a sin. God permitted (and encouraged) drinking wine quite often so I don't know how you can argue that drinking alcohol is a sin...

Can you show me the relevant passage that shows gambling is a sin? The soldiers cast lots for Jesus clothing (bad) and the Apostles cast lots to see who would be the next Apostle (good), but these are based on the circumstances.

So I leave the interpretation up to the 2000 year old Catholic Church's teaching, which says it is not a moral evil as according to my previous post.

right, and as we already discussed in the previous thread, as a poker player you are doing *this* every single day:

just because you are ignorant to that doesnt mean you are free from responsibility.

as to whether gambling itself is a sin, i tend to trust the judgment of those who have studied the topic extensively, and in my research, a vast majority consider gambling to be sinful, and even if its not (ie, everything is "permissible"), it definitely falls into the "not constructive" bucket.

My father is a very conservative christian and has never done any gambling (including poker) in his life, nor does he have any desire to. He agrees that playing poker is not a sin. He says more or less what Jerok posted from the Catholic church handbook or whatever.

I am curious where you believe that the bible says gambling is a sin.

Are you saying the writers of the Catechism have not studied morality extensively, more extensively say than probably all those you are quoting?

I do agree it's in the 'not constructive' bucket, however.

you yourself already posted why poker is a sin:

"they become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others"

if you deny that this happens during every session then you are ignorant to the true nature of poker.

regardless, the definition of sin itself means "missing the mark". If you honestly think that God or Jesus thinks you playing poker or gambling with your money is "hitting the mark", then so be it. Hey, I have no problems with gambling or poker (i mean we *are* on 2+2), but you should.

Can you provide scripture that points to gambling being a sin? Because i can point to scripture that claims otherwise.

Do you consider Barry Greenstein's or Guy Laliberte's approach to professional poker not constructive? They give a good chunk of their winnings to charity.

I dont know how they can read that part of the catechism and not see poker as wrong either. But....

its a sin by nature in that gambling is not what God wants you to do with your money. Is gambling evil? No, but its sin. (btw, the casting of lots in the bible is not gambling in that it was used to determine the sacrifice, not to take money from one person to another) Its also sin to waste your time sitting on the couch watching TV when you could be helping out a homeless family. Does it make it evil? No, but its a sin.

Your (and many Christians) problem is that they equate sin with evil or morally wrong. Sin is merely to "miss the mark", and its fairly obvious from both OT and NT readings that God's standard for Christians is very high, some might say unattainable. If you honestly believe that Jesus would have no problems with you using your money to gamble, then that will be between you and your buddy Jesus.

its the best of a bad thing. still makes it a bad thing. taking money from the poor (poker is a psuedo pyramid scheme really) to give to the poor is kind of pointless you know what i mean?