Yeah, here's a message from Zeus to you..



this is undeniable proof he exists..

Well let's compare the quality of evidence. This photo is taken by a man hence the pic can be enhanced by a man (men).

Even if it wasn't enhanced it's only a one time pattern. The constellations are multiple patterns that repeat every day.

O happy day! God did provide us with a super miracle. Usually miracles are a one time event.

One definition of miracle:

act of God: an event that appears to be contrary to the laws of nature and is regarded as an act of God

God provides the event every evening so God already topped the typical atheist request of providing a miracle. In fact he anticipated the request and supplied it in abundance to all generations.

Prove it or it did not happen.. Prove that this picture is enhanced by a man.. btw, constellations are also creations of men(you just debunked your own evidence)... they assigned specific characteristics to them... Those stars are millions of light years away from each other but they appear to be flat from here on earth...

There you go, again contradicting yourself.. First you claim my one time event miracle from ZEUS is a one time pattern so it should not be taken as evidence but then you claim that miracles are usually one time events.. lol CAN YOU DECIDE ALREADY????

"God provides the event every evening so God already topped the typical atheist request of providing a miracle. In fact he anticipated the request and supplied it in abundance to all generations."

I don't think you got the message right, STARS are not FIXED POINTS.. in thousands/millions of years from now, these constellations will be gone and the people living on planet Earth(depending how long with it continue to be a hospitable environment for us)..

I said "can" above. I just acted like a skeptic pointing out the photo is manipulable. I didn't say it was manipulated. I was comparing grades of evidence.

The constellations aren't manipulable by man.

And you're contradicting yourself.

I merely provided the generally accepted idea regarding how a miracle is defined as a one time event though many people believe all life all the time is a miracle.

When philosophers are talking about miracles they usually mean a one time event.

Thus the constellations are a super miracle and modern day people for the most part have overlooked them in their rush to master modern day knowledge as if it would give them the world.

If you were wiser you'd be thanking me for pointing them out.

Eternal life is a lot to leave lying on the table. I doubt I could talk you as easily out of your winning lottery ticket as people let themselves be talked out of their eternal life options.

give it up gskowal. This is the same poster who believes that the pyramids were made by God:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...ection-518892/

This is just one of many kooky beliefs she picks up from random internet websites/publications and thinks because the author has a degree in some partially relevant field, that its a worthwhile belief, and accuses anyone who disagrees with her as not being open minded or able to think away from the norm.

Your (and everyone's) best bet is to save your breath and leave your replies for posters who will actually:
1. Care what you have to say
2. Actually read what you have to say
3. Actually post a reply that is on topic with your post
4. Not spam you with a bunch of links to shady websites

You should stop saying stuff like this if you're going to call yourself a universalist.

But I said options.

The option between being in the first or the second resurrection.

Here's an option for you, stop trolling or Zeus will send you to a not so nice of a meeting with Hades...

LOL...you're the one making the logical fallacy now.

If I have made a mistake or two in the past it doesn't make me totally wrong now.

That's why we reason.

Too bad your irrational vendetta blinds you to that fact.

Nobody's perfect including yourself.

If i have the option to leave eternal life off the table, thats not really universalism.

Your actions could impact whether you are raised in the first resurrection or the second one.

Read Jones. One of his articles quotes a scripture saying both believers and unbelievers are found in the second resurrection.

read a science book.

Then my eternal life is not and could not be left on the table.

If you dont want to recognize the contradiction or stop threatening annihilation, fine.

You'll have to study it for yourself.

I thought you had me on ignore?

Anyways, you haven't made "a mistake or two". Almost every thread you start is a mistake and almost word for word the same errors you make in every thread you start.

Nevertheless, I never said you were *wrong*, or even your opinions are wrong. I said its not worth wasting your breath trying to have a discussion with you, since you do the same thing over and over, and eventually either depart the thread saying you dont feel like investigating the topic further, or cry atheist persecution. Once again, your poor reading comprehension shows its ugly face.

The Bible is many books, written over centuries. The lack of modern consensus is mostly due to poor translations from original texts and unfamiliarity with the cultural setting in which they were written.

As in most areas of life, the buck stops with the personal responsibility of one's own choice, including where to rely on another person's opinion. If my opinion is carefully reasoned from the actual Bible, and no one seems willing or able to defend their opposing position on the same basis, then the confidence I have in my point of view increases. This procedure is common to many fields and is nowadays pushing out reliance on traditional interpretations of the Bible as well.

I see, that seems reasonable. I guess I'm wondering who you have spoken to that has an opposing position than you. Two areas in particular: Whether Jesus is God (which most Christians hold a differing view than you) and whether hell is everlasting punishment (which again most Christians hold a differing view than you). I'm sure there are quite a few people, on this board included, who are, and have, tried to defend their opposing position. If anything, the only conclusion that can be made is that it is uncertain, why then are you still confident in your own interpretation in these seemingly important matters?

For starters, the types of cases presented on behalf of the opposing sides of those topics just look like wrong arguments. Meaning they rely on the familiar laundry list of murky fallacies and smoky pyrotechnics rather than being clearly and straightforwardly founded on the Bible. In addition, when the other side is confronted with their problem, they seem unable to adapt to a requirement of exclusively Biblical argument. This is usually due to a vested interest of some sort. On the other hand, someone willing to be wrong in their own sight in order to be right by God almost invariably responds and changes their mind.

The Puritans would probably agree with you.

"[17th-century] Puritans were the first modern parents. Like many of us, they looked on their treatment of children as a test of their own self-control. Their goal was not to simply ensure the child's duty to the family, but to help him or her make personal, individual commitments. They were the first authors to state that children must obey God rather than parents, in case of a clear conflict"- C. John Sommerville

See you're wrong again. No one does anything "every" time.

I take a lot of people on and off ignore to correct misstatements they make that they usually are making illegitimately.

Sometimes I don't even finish reading a post if the tone of the post is in poor taste as there's no good reason I should engage someone's critical spirit repeatedly.

Not surprising.

Next time, step away from the keyboard and don't reply to me either. It'll save the 2+2 a couple of useless bytes in storage.

I have a little and i have never heard universalism say i have the possibility to leave my eternal life on the table because a soul that can be left on the table is annihilation.

I'm not able to summarize every point of both universalist views I've read.

You can read becomingone.org or Dr. Jones' site for particulars.

Well if you're reading one where i can leave my soul on the table and not get eternal life i would be interested. Because that just sounds like annihilation to me.

If the Bible were so clear, there would not be countless divisions of the Christian church, mostly splintered off due to disagreements about what the ONE BOOK their religion is based on says.

No perfect being would have failed so terribly at writing the instruction book.