Do you know what free will is? Because it does not make sense to say that by killing person X, you took away X's free will to live. It's a nonsense sentence.

If I don't need to respond to you, then why am I?

He is neither. Click the link at the end of his post. It takes you to another forum where you posted the exact same post. And he just copied one response. Yeah, he should have put his response in quotes, but he did cite his source.

Then who or what controls your decision making?

If something is created perfect this must not mean that the creation acts always perfectly related to his potentials or entity. I give you an example: A lion rips a deer. For the deer the situation is not perfect (damn, it should have run faster, lol). But everything is created in a way that the wildlife is balanced. (This is not an example to discuss, it is only for that it clears what I mean)

What does your statement have to do with the Biblical nature of Satan?

I think the difference is that angels are celestial (meaning unclear to me, exactly, but I've taken it to mean that they are spirit only and non-physical) beings and humans are physical beings.

References in scriptures to angels sinning:

2 Peter 2:4 (KJV)
4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6 (KJV)
6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

The implication that I take from angels sinning is that they must have free will in order to do so.

[QUOTE] Did those mentioned have a desire or will to live or a desire or will to die?


Questions to answer questions are not answers usually and I have no idea what you are asking or relating to my question.

I do. Within the limits of nature and physics.

Freedom is something that is taken. it cannot be given unless it is being withheld by force.

The same with you.

Regards
DL

Why not. The deer is following it's nature to be food for a lion.
Are both beasts not doing exactly what animals do. Either compete or cooperate?

In our natural world, were you not born as perfect as nature could produce with the conditions at hand?
Yes you were. Using the U S version of perfect, you then proceeded to evolve that initial perfection to the perfection you are today.
Nature is always doing the best she can with what is at hand.
We are all evolving perfection.

Regards
DL

Just that the Hebrews and Jews saw a good Satan where the Christians turned Satan into an evil entity.

You will know that the Bible is a consolidation of many of the older belief system of that area.

Google virgin births if you need confirmation.

Regards
DL

Can you cite some sources that depict Satan as a good guy?

Such as what specifically?

Just googling that phrase turns up all sorts of things, including the thoroughly-debunked Zeitgeist genre of laughable "scholarship" which you can't possibly be recommending.

well, i'm not saying that thats an unreasonable assertion, but it seems unfounded. Again, ask yourself why God created humans. Then ask yourself why angels, if given free will, can not fulfill the same requirements. If their only difference is celestial vs physical, then that makes little sense as once we are in heaven, we will be "celestial" as well.

In the book of Job (Iyov), ha-satan ("the accuser") is the title of an angel submitted to God. In Judaism ha-satan does not make evil, rather points out to God the evil inclinations and actions of humankind. In essence ha-satan has no power unless humans do evil things. After God places a wager with Satan about Job's piety, God gives "ha-satan" permission to test the faith of Job. The righteous man is afflicted with loss of family, property, and later, health, but he still stays faithful to God. At the conclusion of this book God appears in a whirlwind, explaining to all that divine justice is inscrutable. In the epilogue Job's possessions are restored and he has a second family to replace the one that died.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan#In_the_Hebrew_Bible

seems like he is depicted as one of God's own. Not sure if that makes him a "good" guy or not. no idea what "good guy" really even means in this context.

Also if they are non corporal only, it means they couldn't come down and interact with us and give us messages. Or get thrown out to be raped in that one story which tells us to keep virgins and servants around to protect ourselves form roaming bands of homosexual rapist.

Wikipedia, as you may know, is not exactly a one-stop shop for quality scholarship. Often it's an echo chamber for this or that establishment line.

For starters, "satan" is a generic title, not anyone's proper name in the Bible.

Secondly, "Satan" (as incorrectly depicted) presents himself before God. Only men do that.

Thirdly, angels (of which the non-Biblical "Satan" character is supposedly one) do not accuse men, which the "satan" against Job does.

Etc.

They likely wanted to live. But this doesn't have anything to do with free will. Let's say for the sake of argument that free will exists and both you and I have it. If I tie you up, am I taking away your free will?

The answer is no. That's not what free will is about.

Or what if, with free will, I want to fly. Is gravity infringing on my free will?

It's not that complicated. I was just saying that you can do things even though you don't have to.

Wikipedia is extremely accurate concerning mathematics and physics fyi.

I noticed this a few times also. Wikipedia seems accurate and pretty thorough for reference-type material, not so reliable for "scholarship" meaning greater depth than what you can open a textbook and find almost verbatim.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhef6...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5v42jtet5c

Regards
DL

Your last statement is very true as we would have to think that a good guy killed children and babies at Sodom and many more in Noah's genocidal flood.

Seems to me a good guy or God would cure not kill since He can do either.

Regards
DL

How about making your own points here rather than linking to yet another porcelain bowlful of high-budget YouTube propaganda outreach accessories?

Cite your evidence for the following: "... the Bible is a consolidation of many of the older belief system of that area."

Absolutely.

Regards
DL

As said my example is not the point. It is only giving an example of how it is possible that something is perfect and imperfect at the same moment.

I just did on this last and you did not accept it.

And you want me to waste more time on you.

Not likely. What you ask for I already gave.

If the words of those learned people are not good enough then the words of some other learned experts won't do either.

Nice debate tactic. Not.

Do your own homework for a change and learn something.

Regards
DL

What is imperfect about two animals following their natures to a T.
If that is imperfect and we would stop it, the world would end.
is that what you call perfect?

Regards
DL

Which learned people? First you recommend I use google. Then you link to an 11-part video in which a mind-reader can discover the references you consider relevant and reconstruct your case. Having enough time to spam the internet with ill-informed musings yet being too busy to properly cite sources when questioned is not the best way to book sales with a propaganda campaign.