First off Airship, thank you for being one of the posters in this thread who actually thinks of a response before posting.
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Originally Posted by AirshipOhio
I would suggest that all laws are culturally influenced tradition, and it is only with concern for life on earth, as opposed to the "here after" that anyone can give a reasonable explanation for why murder might be considered a worse crime than eating meat on Friday.
It is possible to compare the morality of actions beyond "doing x means you go to Hell." As Jib explain in another thread, any action which is a basic violation of morality by pretty much any standard brings consequences not through punishment but lack of reward. For example, a murderer must live a portion of life in jail, on the run, or in grief because of the immoral action. This time spent could have otherwise been used to accomplish something that would have instead fulfilled the person. A man who cheats on his wife never has the opportunity to understand what it means to grow in a meaningful relationship with another. Personally, I do not evaluate actions in terms of what will or will not condemn me to Hell, but what will further my faith and allow it to grow and what will stun it. Fish on Friday's is a traditional practice that is really neutral to morality.
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I can't think of many moral codes proposed by atheists. I'm an atheist and I make do with the laws and customs of the society that I live in. There are aspects that I would love to see improved, and I effect that change with my vote and my spending.
Peter Singer proposes some ethics in some of his books. They are quite consistent and well reasoned. I don't know what the significance of "controlling our intentions" is, as you have used it above.
However, the problem with cultural relativism is that it does not allow for a journey towards a higher truth to be realized. Furthermore, many situations that fall in the "gray area" will arise.
What I mean by "controlling one's intentions" is that it is very different to not do something because you are not allowed to and to not do something because you realize that it is harmful. For example, if I want to kill someone, but do not and still continue to hate the person in all of my actions, am I demonstrating morality? If I am jealous of someone's wife, though I do not physically approach her in anyway, but lust after her in all of my thoughts, am I demonstrating morality? There is a difference between a good man and a man who acts like a good man. The reason is that you prohibit an action, the temptation to do evil will still exist in our thoughts; however, only in eliminating this can we achieve a higher sense of morality.
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That is fine. I think that says the same thing as what I proposed above. As long as you interpret the bible, and I interpret the bible, and so does everyone else, we will have to have discussions about what it means and how it should be applied to law or custom. The problem is, if we hold out the bible as holy, then people are allowed to argue for their interpretation because of how well they may argue the bible fits it, rather than having to convince everyone independent of the bible alone.
Anyway, this is kind of a double-edged sword, because let me be clear, it is far from obvious (to me at least) that the majority of religious people look to their religion for unbiased advice on how to live their life. Or that, for instance, "religious wars" would not have happened, were it not for religion. But I digress.
(Sorry, I skipped this and forgot to go back to it. I have to go now, but will answer it when I get back.)
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Originally Posted by Arouet
That's fine too, and I'm not questioning you feeling what you are feeling. What I might question is the cause of your feelings. Our senses are notoriously unreliable.
Thank you. This is pretty much what's going through my mind.
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Originally Posted by Butcho22
I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster...so that means I'm not like those god-forsaken atheists, right?
You seem to be saying that believing in some type of God makes you a better person than not believing. Is this your stance?
I have said many times that a person who believes in God is not necessarily a person who has faith in God. Though I will certainly say that a person who has faith in God will ultimately be a better person than one without.
