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Old 08-14-2014, 01:48 PM   #151
LEMONZEST
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Re: Richard Dawkins on Whale Evolution

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It is a basic observational error to postulate the existence of a "spiritual/supernatural arena". Where is the evidence for this supernatural arena? where does it reside? and what does it consist of?
In brief my response is that this is all up for discussion. If it reads better to you I can adjust my phrasing as follows: "IF the spiritual realm exists the scientific method is perhaps not the best way to explore it".

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because in my 27 years on this earth I've never come across a "supernatural arena" nor have I had any inclination to unnecessarily postulate its existence.
The French astronomer and mathematician Pierre-Simon Laplace is famously quoted for the same idea in his conversation with Napoleon

Napoleon: You have written this huge book on the system of the world without once mentioning the author of the universe.

Laplace: Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis.

This sums up methodological naturalism well as applied to scientific inquiry. You are only one person with one set of experiences. What about the people who have experienced something supernatural?

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What conclusions in particular are you referring to?
Atheism

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because I'm starting to get the impression that you've never read anything by R Dawkins.
The only thing I have read from Dawkins is TGSOE and the youtubes.

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You would have a discussion about what the data "means" and you would be wrong. Do you know why you would be wrong? because you haven't spent enough time with the data.
I disagree, but ok.

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Applying biology to spirituality? Why would a scientist apply a whole lot of assumptions to the interpretation of his data when his goal is to eliminate any and all assumptions possible?
Just to clarify I am not suggesting religion should somehow be integrated into biology or other sciences. Scientists should eliminate all assumptions which is simply good science according to methodological naturalism. Do you appreciate the difference between methodological naturalism and philosophical naturalism?

As I mentioned above not even all scientists apply methodological naturalism to all aspects of thought and life.

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Also, can you please define spirituality for me?
Broadly speaking, things which exist beyond the physical realm which include but are not limited to: God(s), prayer, consciousness of man (spirit?), morality, compassion, and life after death.

By its nature spirituality is difficult to pin down with words because it is immaterial. I think our state of mind is included in spirituality, things like hope, despair, fear, joy etc. These are part of our consciousness and spiritual state.

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I would recommend "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Dawkins if you think that this is his view because this couldn't be further from his interpretation of the data. His whole book is about celebrating the natural in all its glory, without the need for superfluous supernatural - without the need for additional assumptions.
I was providing an example, I was not attempting to summarize RD's views. I have read TGSOE.

Last edited by LEMONZEST; 08-14-2014 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 08-14-2014, 02:48 PM   #152
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Re: Richard Dawkins on Whale Evolution

This guy is entertaining in his own right and also covers naturalism well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9fIDM5ijSY

note the line of skulls in the background.... also love the superman shirt.
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Old 04-23-2021, 12:22 PM   #153
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Re: Richard Dawkins on Whale Evolution

Debunking the whale evolution narrative:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq_oYftA2ow

Addressing responses to above video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ErLGxrSdw0
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Old 04-30-2021, 08:43 AM   #154
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Re: Richard Dawkins on Whale Evolution

Give it up mate. Nobody cares about your creationist YouTubes that focus on a small discrepancy they found in someone's book and then make it sound like it discredits the entire body of work supporting whale evolution.
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Old 04-30-2021, 02:56 PM   #155
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Re: Richard Dawkins on Whale Evolution

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Give it up mate. Nobody cares about your creationist YouTubes that focus on a small discrepancy they found in someone's book and then make it sound like it discredits the entire body of work supporting whale evolution.
#1. The video is not from a creationist source
#2. "small discrepancy" <--- ROFL, shows how brain-washed you are
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Old 04-30-2021, 07:16 PM   #156
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Re: Richard Dawkins on Whale Evolution

So give a better explanation for the existence of whales. Please understand that you have to agree that the world is billions of years old and fossils are real remnants of creatures that lived millions of years ago otherwise there is no point in discussing anything. So the earth springing into existence with fossils already in the ground is not an explanation but a crackpot theory.

And that is a creationist source and I am not sure you understand who is brainwashed here.
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Old 05-03-2021, 10:54 PM   #157
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Re: Richard Dawkins on Whale Evolution

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So give a better explanation for the existence of whales.
God created whales.

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Please understand that you have to agree that the world is billions of years old and fossils are real remnants of creatures that lived millions of years ago otherwise there is no point in discussing anything.
So, a discussion can only be had if one accepts the "millions of years" narrative?

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So the earth springing into existence with fossils already in the ground is not an explanation but a crackpot theory.
I am unaware of anyone in this Forum postulating that theory. Do you?
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Old 05-03-2021, 10:57 PM   #158
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Re: Richard Dawkins on Whale Evolution

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And that is a creationist source and I am not sure you understand who is brainwashed here.
You are correct; Discovery Science is an ID site.
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:37 AM   #159
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Re: Richard Dawkins on Whale Evolution

I don't want to go into a discussion on when God created whales with someone that thinks the earth is 6000 years old and fossils aren't really fossils because that is beyond pointless so I try to stop that in advance. What I tried was to get a feel of where Festeringzit stands these days because I vaguely remember his take was animals change but speciation doesn't happen. This sort of works with most species we currently know even if you accept the fossil record. The biggest exception is whales.
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Old 05-05-2021, 12:04 AM   #160
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Re: Richard Dawkins on Whale Evolution

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I don't want to go into a discussion on when God created whales with someone that thinks the earth is 6000 years old and fossils aren't really fossils because that is beyond pointless so I try to stop that in advance.
I believe that the fossils are actually fossils.

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What I tried was to get a feel of where Festeringzit stands these days because I vaguely remember his take was animals change but speciation doesn't happen. This sort of works with most species we currently know even if you accept the fossil record. The biggest exception is whales.
I also believe that animals change (microevolution), but that transpeciation does not occur (macroevolution).
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Old 05-05-2021, 02:05 AM   #161
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Re: Richard Dawkins on Whale Evolution

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And that is a creationist source and I am not sure you understand who is brainwashed here.
They're definitely not creationists. Nope. They're Cdesign Proponentsists.
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Old 05-06-2021, 03:10 AM   #162
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Re: Richard Dawkins on Whale Evolution

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Originally Posted by Dutch101 View Post
So give a better explanation for the existence of whales. Please understand that you have to agree that the world is billions of years old and fossils are real remnants of creatures that lived millions of years ago otherwise there is no point in discussing anything. So the earth springing into existence with fossils already in the ground is not an explanation but a crackpot theory.

And that is a creationist source and I am not sure you understand who is brainwashed here.
Let me repeat myself.

No, they are not a creationist site. Intelligent design proponents encompass a wide array of folks, some are agnostic, like Dr David Berlinski.

Why are you spewing YEC crap into this thread? You assume that anyone pushing back against Darwinism is a YEC? Please.
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