Well, the incident I had in mind was with a coworker some years back. He was outside on the break bench basically singing the blues about his life. His life sucks. Life sucks. So many dramas and problems, and so on.

I suggested that he explore the church for some help, as it sounded to me that he needed some "spiritual" assistance. He got up and started pacing back and forth in front of me like a caged tiger, saying that he had a born again neighbor who once told him he was going to hell during some sort of a neighborly dispute. I could literally see the arteries flaring up in his neck. He started ranting like a maniac about "god people" and I really never got a word in edgewise. Nothing he said was of any substance. It was profanity after obscenity. And I realized that the guy really was very close to some kind of psychic break. Than he turns to me with both fists clenched up and asks me if I was "born again."

If ever I wanted to deny Christ, that was the moment!!

I told him I was a christian, and told him I'll talk to him again soon and beat back in.

It would probably be uncharitable of me to say I think 99% of your anecdotes are made up or largely embellished in some way, right?

Are you absolutely certain he was not merely a freethinking liberal which you mistook for a ranting maniac?

ok but this has nothing to do with the fact that atheism and religion have little to do with how much of an ******* someone is

Actually, I think I might have tamed that story down a bit, now that I think of it. I seem to remember him even rolling his sleeves up real tightly so that veins were bulging out of his arms, too. Plus, he was a short guy, and I'm around 6 feet tall. I've always had this fear of a short little tough guy kicking my butt. I'd totally rather fight a 6 foot 5 monster first, if given the option. I might be beat up, but at least have my pride intact.

Also, the way the sun framed his head, it made me feel like he was bigger than he really was, and that I was smaller than I really was. It became clear that this was good vs evil. Loving Christian vs angry, frothy atheist. There was also these two little horn-tufts of hair that were sticking up there out of his boil of unkempt hair -- which lent this whole scene a very surreal, very dream-like quality. He was literally suppurating at the mouth, and a seed of spit may have even set down on my knee.

I got up and rebuked him openly, and he fell back and began to lash out like someone overheating on bath salts. I performed an exorcism right there on him. Right out there as people gathered about us. No lie. I mounted him, grabbed him by the shoulders and he spat the devil out with a loud cry.

If I told you the rest, you just wouldn't believe me.

You think you're joking here...

I think there is a real argument to be made for your view here. For instance, there is some evidence that a belief in hell motivates people to be more moral (e.g. here). However, I am not convinced that this wouldn't be swamped by other correlative effects, such as education and wealth. Unfortunately, you seem unable to bring up this idea without making it seem like a personal attack on the moral character of the atheists you are ostensibly talking with and so the discussion never goes anywhere useful.

Eh. I don't really care much one way or the other about gun control, but you make several serious mistakes here. First, as usual, you incorrectly conflate the left and atheism. In fact, in my experience a higher percentage of libertarians are atheists than of liberals, and of course libertarians are strongly opposed to gun control (here is some related survey evidence). Second, you clearly misunderstand the view of liberals on the Second Amendment. They don't think that the constitution guarantees and individual right to bear arms. Pretending that there was no debate about this issue--that it was just obviously guaranteed is just to ignore the actual history of Second Amendment jurisprudence.

This is poor reasoning. Sure, some of the most atheistic countries on earth were totalitarian states. But some of the atheistic countries on earth are also some of the freest. Also, some of the most totalitarian countries on earth are religious. So there is nothing indicated here.

It probably is over stated, as such. I have a very strong libertarian streak myself, but it seems to me that most atheists are far to the left. I guess I could be wrong about this.

I guess if I had to be more exact I'd say "atheist majority" countries, but as there only is a sample size of one, I guess it wouldn't have much behind it (though I believe that Russia was atheist majority once). And North Korea, too, now that I think of it. And Cuba once. I dunno. My case is actually looking better, in fact.

As for the gun control stuff, I think the left is delusional. As a matter of "real life" if somebody wants to kill YOU, there is no way to stop them. If a criminal wants to procure a gun, they will procure one, anywhere in the world, gun control or not. All you are doing is helping to disarm a law-abiding public.

I'm more of an intent guy, anyway, when it comes to the constitution. You might be able to semantically wriggle out of some interpretation, the same way a biblical scholar might, but it is laughable to suggest that in a time where damn near everybody owned a gun, their intention was to strip that right away with the constitutional amendment. Come now.

But really, I don't even own a gun, and would love a world where there were no guns, but that is a fantasy world. I have two young girls, and if I took them camping in the woods, the hell I'd be out there without a rifle.

The recent flap about gun control, imo, is just a smokescreen meant to throw the public off from discovering the real reasons behind the spate of mass shootings. If you want to find that out, look critically at the "experts" CNN trots out night after night that try to explain these tragedies. They themselves are the root and cause of the problem.

This is just crazy talk, but at least that's consistent with your other posts itt.

As for the intent behind the 2nd amendment, have you tried reading it?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The beginning of that would imply that it has nothing to do with protecting yourself from a random bad guy.

I suppose all it is really saying is that the militia "can keep" their arms, right?

Does that really make sense to you?

Have you looked into similar wordings of this amendment in state constitutions that were made at this time? That would be a start.

Funny that you would use that word-- "crazy", because ironically, almost every one of these shooters have been under psychiatric care or on psychiatric drugs.

But we both know that you have a dog in this fight.

Are you absolutely certain they were not merely misogynistic and racist atheists?

For real, right? And have you noticed that hospitals are, ironically, full of people with cancer? Wake up, sheeple! Hospitals cause cancer!

He's also the one that knows something about psychiatry in this fight, as opposed to someone who makes ludicrous sweeping statements about it and then backs down when challenged.

Try to imagine that all of those shooters were under the care and personal counseling of a Christian pastor or minister. Why, the threads here would be endless. CNN anchors would be having orgasms on the air. I'm not even sure Christianity could survive such a thing.

Long live the secular priesthood.

I know that you shouldn't give crazy people mind-altering drugs.

Just some common sense, itt.

And you must believe what you see on TV, you think Leno doesn't have an agenda or an audience to cater to?

This is part of what informs your beliefs about the character of millions of atheists?

As a Christian who evangelizes, I can say pretty confidently that MOST PEOPLE can't really coherently verbalize the reasons behind their belief/non-belief (not in a way, at least, that would satisfy anyone here). We get the extra benefit of taking regular "surveys."

Just get out there and talk to people. I recently had a Muslim spit out in rapid-fire fashion about 15 arguments against the trinity without stopping to breathe. The only one I can remember right now is that it is ridiculous that God had a son, because God doesn't have sex organs. (Edit: There was another one, actually: that God couldn't have a mother, because then his mother would be God).

Another person told me that because we have "meat-eating teeth" -- ipso facto-- God does not exist.

I was also recently told that God does not exist, but that evolution is wrong. I was given no alternative theory, but the next time I see him, I am def. curious and I will press that issue.

Whatever the reasons, you will almost never hear sound philosophical justification, and the scientific justifications are just weird.

If they also had millions of other people under their care who didn't become shooters, people who were now able to live normal lives?

Just LOL from you, ITT

You're all over the place itt, saying illogical things and not being terribly coherent. And it almost sounds like you're saying here that we shouldn't give psychiatric meds to psych patients, which is beyond ridiculous and ignorant.

Sure. I know you'd love to have us just revert to a world where medicine is eschewed in favor of "common sense" and your favorite personal religion, but its not happening any time soon. So you can continue your uninformed rants, perfectly secure in your us vs them mentality, and the rest of us will just keep on moving.

Why do you do this?

FWIW, the only thing we can say a priori about atheists and what characteristics or beliefs they may share, is that they don't believe in gods. Do you believe you've had enough personal experience, and that you can trust your own perceptions enough, to make the type of general statements you've been making about atheists ITT?