Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Religion, God, and Theology Discussion of God, religion, faith, theology, and spirituality.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-21-2020, 10:55 PM   #101
lagtight
Pooh-Bah
 
lagtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,402
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Buddy View Post
Not on topic to thread title but...







Hymn karaoke



Try not to wake up your neighbors or scare your cat.



It's nice that there's so much more church on YouTube now.



That was beautiful! Thank you for sharing that!
lagtight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2020, 12:04 AM   #102
FellaGaga-52
veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,518
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

No I never had a valid point and that's why they're up in arms and obsessing over my punctuation. Check/LOL.

When I deride the religion and the belief system, that (in part), as someone said, is motivated from my shadow.

When apologists use all manners of diversionary tactics, that is coming from their shadow.

(*The previous sentences need to be hyper-checked for grammatical perfection, you know, like all internet forum posts do. I recommend inspection of the slash (a la "Dolly's" Super/System and potential comma irregularities ... and then three or four days debate over it. Also whether or not to include a space pre and post ellipsis is important here. You know, because these are debates you at least might win.)
FellaGaga-52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2020, 12:32 AM   #103
RoundGuy
"just ornery" -- Mat
 
RoundGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Banned daily at 8 pm
Posts: 9,017
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52 View Post
No I never had a valid point
Finally.

(Welcome to the Internets...)
RoundGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2020, 01:25 AM   #104
Aaron W.
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 30,000
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve00007 View Post
Iím not sure he even knows what a quote is. This is the first time I ever suspected a poster of not knowing how to quote somebody. Hopefully he figured it out after looking it up.
Nah. I mean, he even linked an article where the first sentence starts like this:

Quote:
Quotation marks are primarily used to indicate material that is being reproduced word for word...
And he still somehow doesn't want to concede that he didn't quote Einstein. And he also still thinks that this is having something to do with grammar, despite the fact that a lot of us have been pretty explicit about what we're questioning him on.

To quote George Carlin: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs

Note: Some cursing in the video, if that sort of thing bothers you.
Aaron W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2020, 02:50 AM   #105
lagtight
Pooh-Bah
 
lagtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,402
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52 View Post
No I never had a valid point and that's why they're up in arms and obsessing over my punctuation. Check/LOL.

When I deride the religion and the belief system, that (in part), as someone said, is motivated from my shadow.

When apologists use all manners of diversionary tactics, that is coming from their shadow.

(*The previous sentences need to be hyper-checked for grammatical perfection, you know, like all internet forum posts do. I recommend inspection of the slash (a la "Dolly's" Super/System and potential comma irregularities ... and then three or four days debate over it. Also whether or not to include a space pre and post ellipsis is important here. You know, because these are debates you at least might win.)
Wow, you're making even less sense than normal.

What is your point (if any)?
lagtight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2020, 03:58 AM   #106
Steve00007
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,563
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W. View Post
Nah. I mean, he even linked an article where the first sentence starts like this:



And he still somehow doesn't want to concede that he didn't quote Einstein. And he also still thinks that this is having something to do with grammar, despite the fact that a lot of us have been pretty explicit about what we're questioning him on.

To quote George Carlin: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs

Note: Some cursing in the video, if that sort of thing bothers you.
I noticed that earlier and thought he possibly looked that up because he was struggling so much.

In any case, this doesnít really matter that much.
Steve00007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2020, 08:11 PM   #107
Best Buddy
journeyman
 
Best Buddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Rioting
Posts: 341
Smile Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Here is another really good song:

Best Buddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2020, 08:11 PM   #108
Best Buddy
journeyman
 
Best Buddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Rioting
Posts: 341
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

What is Trump doing opening churches? That's not safe yet and it's something that can easily be done online.

High COVID-19 Attack Rate Among Attendees at Events at a Church ó Arkansas, March 2020

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6920e2.htm

Best Buddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2020, 10:47 PM   #109
RoundGuy
"just ornery" -- Mat
 
RoundGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Banned daily at 8 pm
Posts: 9,017
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Buddy View Post
What is Trump doing opening churches? That's not safe yet and it's something that can easily be done online
This isn't the politics forum.

If someone needs to go to church, go. I'll be wearing a mask when I meet you at Wal-Mart.
RoundGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2020, 12:22 AM   #110
Aaron W.
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 30,000
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundGuy View Post
This isn't the politics forum.
Meh -- We've talked a lot in the intersection of politics and religion.
Aaron W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2020, 01:22 AM   #111
RoundGuy
"just ornery" -- Mat
 
RoundGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Banned daily at 8 pm
Posts: 9,017
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W. View Post
Meh -- We've talked a lot in the intersection of politics and religion.
Not Trump and churches. Unless I've missed something since early April.
RoundGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2020, 01:28 AM   #112
lagtight
Pooh-Bah
 
lagtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,402
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundGuy View Post
Not Trump and churches. Unless I've missed something since early April.
Not sure how the shutting down of churches isn't a relevant topic in this Forum.

The mod can move the topic if s/he wants.
lagtight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2020, 01:37 AM   #113
RoundGuy
"just ornery" -- Mat
 
RoundGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Banned daily at 8 pm
Posts: 9,017
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight View Post
Not sure how the shutting down of churches isn't a relevant topic in this Forum.
I think the post was about Trump, and opening churches.

But hey, go for it.
RoundGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2020, 02:07 AM   #114
Aaron W.
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 30,000
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundGuy View Post
Not Trump and churches. Unless I've missed something since early April.
Not specifically Trump and churches, but definitely Trump:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...trump-1639438/

And definitely Republicanism:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...icans-1749715/
Aaron W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 09:44 PM   #115
BeaucoupFish
Pooh-Bah
 
BeaucoupFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Touched by His Noodly Appendage
Posts: 4,384
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Was RGT better when it was more active? It was more fun, yes, but was it better?


Hell yes it was better: it was more fun!


I doubt we'll see another Splendour ('member Splendour? I 'member).
But it's possible that another copy-pasting forum jumper (especially one who "likes to talk with atheists philosophically") turns up some day:

You see I have this idea that man can get to the existence of God from the concept of God, which concept has already been formulated by the thinkers of mankind from since millennia way back.
BeaucoupFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 10:28 PM   #116
d2_e4
Pooh-Bah
 
d2_e4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,902
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W. View Post
To quote George Carlin: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
This is a pretty egregious error for a mathematician to make!

(And yes, I know that over a large enough normally distributed sample the median and the mean converge. Still!)
d2_e4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2020, 05:36 AM   #117
tame_deuces
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tame_deuces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 15,075
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master View Post
I do wonder the degree to which forum is a microcosm for something else as well though. Perhaps it's just my own "awakening" or whatever, but in my early 20s I discovered movement atheism and consumed a lot of four horseman stuff and really enjoyed watching or reading debates between atheists and theists, and for a while being an atheist as a superior intellectual position to theism was a sort of important part of my identity. That kind of thing seems less prevalent 10-15 years a later, and I'm not 100% sure that's just me losing attention personally and maturing, but it seems that this kind of "movement atheism" is less strong these days as well, despite atheism itself probably being stronger. Who knows, maybe all over the place there are lively forums of atheists and theists going at it about whether a god exists and this place dieing is the outlier. What do you all think?
I doubt it was ever really strong. It was probably, as it is today, a small intellectual movement with minimal influence in the mainstream. It probably felt stronger because you identified with it.

There was also elements of personality cults in the movement. Certain spearhead figures were the standard-bearers, and a lot of debate was centered on defending them or advancing them. I was critical of that then and I am critical of it now. An intellectual movement has to stand on its merits, not popular faces. People fail, merits endure.

If you go to the right places you will find it today. Independent forums are a dying breed and social media platforms have taken over. I would say this has taken its toll on quality, as any discussion platform that uses "likes" reward popularity too much in arguments. That also has the side-effect of breeding a type of argument that could never effectively be used against theism or religious beliefs, since these are simply put a lot more popular.

I think atheism will naturally progress simply because of access to information. Theism and religion is at its weakest intellectually when you shine a light on it. This is not a linear plot, because the way digital information is distributed today, it creates funneling effects and the information stream can manipulated for short periods of time.
tame_deuces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2020, 11:55 AM   #118
Aaron W.
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 30,000
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces View Post
I think atheism will naturally progress simply because of access to information.
One of the mistakes of atheist communities is the idea that this is a battle over "information." If you observe the way that the majority of human process and respond to information, you'll see that there's a lot of reason to doubt that more information is what actually changes things.

This is really more about social acceptability.
Aaron W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 11:23 AM   #119
festeringZit
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,421
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W. View Post
This is probably true. I think there were a few things that happened that killed off that atheism.

1) Sam Harris proved himself to be basically an Islamophobe. That's just one possible source of many that could have been pointed to, including some debates inside this forum and maybe there was one in SMP (but I don't remember anymore).
Aaron,

What did Harris say in particular that you think makes him an Islamophobe?
I've seen the video clip where Ben Affleck gets his panties all in a wad. I thought Harris was spot on.

Theoretically speaking, can one make statements about Islam in general w/out being labelled an Islamophobe? (in your opinion)
festeringZit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2020, 12:10 PM   #120
Aaron W.
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 30,000
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by festeringZit View Post
What did Harris say in particular that you think makes him an Islamophobe?
The link provides a pretty good summary. It's a collective body of statements, and not any one specific statement.

Quote:
Theoretically speaking, can one make statements about Islam in general w/out being labelled an Islamophobe? (in your opinion)
Yes. The place where you fall into that category comes from basically false generalizations, often borne out of bad theological readings of Muslim theology (which is not monolithic). You can also have problems with making poor historical analyses that blindly boil everything down to religious motivation. In virtually any context, such myopic analyses of complex socio-historical movements are fraught with error.

Religious perspectives are not above criticism. But the criticism must be fair and honest to both the facts of reality and the specifics of the theology as it's broadly understood by its adherents.
Aaron W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2020, 01:40 PM   #121
festeringZit
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,421
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W. View Post
The link provides a pretty good summary. It's a collective body of statements, and not any one specific statement.
Fair enough... I'll check it out.
festeringZit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2020, 05:53 PM   #122
Original Position
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Original Position's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 8,256
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W. View Post
The link provides a pretty good summary. It's a collective body of statements, and not any one specific statement.
I think Greenwald's case here on the merits is poor and an example of the impulse common on the left right now to avoid engaging ideas on their merits and instead focus on how awful the person putting forward those ideas is for putting them forward. Intellectual cowards, mostly.

Quote:
Yes. The place where you fall into that category comes from basically false generalizations, often borne out of bad theological readings of Muslim theology (which is not monolithic). You can also have problems with making poor historical analyses that blindly boil everything down to religious motivation. In virtually any context, such myopic analyses of complex socio-historical movements are fraught with error.

Religious perspectives are not above criticism. But the criticism must be fair and honest to both the facts of reality and the specifics of the theology as it's broadly understood by its adherents.
This understanding of "Islamophobia" would seem to make many Islamic fundamentalists Islamophobic (and fundamentalist Christians Christianophobic, etc) given that their views on Islam are full of false generalizations, bad readings of theology, and attributing too much agency to religious motivation. I agree with Greenwald that Islamophobia implies an animus against Islam, not just false statements and bad analysis.
Original Position is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2020, 06:26 PM   #123
Aaron W.
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 30,000
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Position View Post
I agree with Greenwald that Islamophobia implies an animus against Islam, not just false statements and bad analysis.
I would agree with this addition.

When I think about it in context of Harris, I think primarily of his emphasis on what he viewed were the uniquely harmful aspects of Islam (to the point of advocating for torture and racial profiling), with many of those arguments being based on making false assertions and bad generalizations. The animus is implicit in those claims, but it's proper to note that explicitly.
Aaron W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2020, 10:55 PM   #124
Original Position
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Original Position's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 8,256
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W. View Post
I would agree with this addition.



When I think about it in context of Harris, I think primarily of his emphasis on what he viewed were the uniquely harmful aspects of Islam (to the point of advocating for torture and racial profiling), with many of those arguments being based on making false assertions and bad generalizations. The animus is implicit in those claims, but it's proper to note that explicitly.
That's a bad inference imo. Presumably Harris made those claims (although I highly doubt your description of his view of torture is accurate) because he thought they were true. Why would his thinking they were true show animus against Muslims? Do you have some special reason to not apply the principle of charity to Sam Harris?
Original Position is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2020, 07:18 PM   #125
Aaron W.
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 30,000
Re: RGT is dying. Please post something stupid we can laugh at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Position View Post
Presumably Harris made those claims (although I highly doubt your description of his view of torture is accurate) because he thought they were true.
We can reasonably assert that people in the KKK believed it was true that blacks were inferior to whites. Does their belief in the truth of the assertion imply an absence of animus? I don't think so.

As far as Harris' view of torture, he has an entire article titled "In Defense of Torture": https://samharris.org/in-defense-of-torture/. (The underlying argument is kind of an all-or-nothing argument about war, and I don't think it's particularly persuasive.)

Whether you think my description of his view as "advocating for torture" is accurate is left as an interpretation that you are welcome to disagree with.

Quote:
Why would his thinking they were true show animus against Muslims? Do you have some special reason to not apply the principle of charity to Sam Harris?
This is why I referred festeringZit to the collective body of statements and not any particular statement. Animus towards a person or a group is sometimes overt enough that a singular statement or action is sufficient as evidence. But this is not always the case. Sometimes, it's the collective body of works that leads one to reach that conclusion.

And that's my view of Sam Harris' views of Islam. At some point, being charitable is to choose to be willfully ignorance of the available evidence.
Aaron W. is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online