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Resurrection of Jesus; symbolic? Resurrection of Jesus; symbolic?

02-06-2009 , 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundGuy
I routinely spot errors in the Bible.
It's good that you routinely study the Bible.
Resurrection of Jesus; symbolic? Quote
02-07-2009 , 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpooch
This is one of the best starting points ( the empty tomb ) ; however, I
believe that most "nonbelievers" will have difficulties because it is
"foolish" or "non-sense" ( call me a "fool"! ) :

1 Cor 1:18-25 (NASB)

18 For the word of the cross is (AI)foolishness to (AJ)those who are
perishing, but to us who are being saved it is (AK)the power of God.

19 For it is written,

"(AL)I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,
AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE."

20(AM)Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of
(AN)this age? Has not God (AO)made foolish the wisdom of (AP)the world?

21 For since in the wisdom of God (AQ)the world through its wisdom did not
come to know God, (AR)God was well-pleased through the (AS)foolishness of
the message preached to (AT)save those who believe.

22 For indeed (AU)Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom;

23 but we preach [c](AV)Christ crucified, (AW)to Jews a stumbling block and
to Gentiles (AX)foolishness,

24 but to those who are (AY)the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ (AZ)
the power of God and (BA)the wisdom of God.

25 Because the (BB)foolishness of God is wiser than men, and (BC)the
weakness of God is stronger than men.

-------

The encouraging word is the Sovereign LORD's patience to everyone:

2 Peter 3:8-9 (NASB)

8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, (U)beloved, that with the
Lord one day is like a thousand years, and (V)a thousand years like one day.

9 (W)The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but
(X)is patient toward you, (Y)not wishing for any to perish but for all to come
to repentance.


The late Raymond Brown believed that the account according to John was
edited with the "appendix" Chapter 21 to combat heretical ideas concerning
the resurrection, i.e. the early witnesses saw that the resurrection was
physical (although not of "flesh and blood").
"the early witness saw that the reurrection was physical(although not of "flesh and blood").

Please explain as this is the essence of my original question.
Resurrection of Jesus; symbolic? Quote
02-07-2009 , 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOEL_
"the early witness saw that the reurrection was physical(although not of "flesh and blood").

Please explain as this is the essence of my original question.
The canonical gospels all mention the resurrection although arguably, the
earliest manuscripts of the Markan account do not have Mk 16:9-20. Most
of the epistles in the NT also mention the resurrection.

Only looking at the account of John, chapter 21 was likely written as an
"appendix" to combat docetism ( a heretical belief that Yeshua was not
resurrected physically but rather only in "appearance" or merely "appeared"
to have a physical body ). Yeshua, together with the seven talmidim
( "disciples" ) that went fishing have a meal together ( this could be
considered a meal of reconciliation or a covenant meal, esp. for Shim'on Kefa
~ "Simon Peter" ).

John mentions that this is the third time Yeshua appeared to the talmidim
after being raised from the dead in Jn 21:14. Thus, for Yeshua to participate
in this meal of reconciliation which consisted of fish and bread with the seven
talmidim, he would have "some kind" of physical body.


Chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians is important concerning the resurrection and
the "believer"; therein, Paul states:

1 Cor 15:50 (NASB):
-------------------

50 Now I say this, brethren, that (BV)flesh and blood cannot (BW)inherit the
kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit (BX)the imperishable.


I'd recommend that all of 1 Cor 15 be read to understand the "gospel" Paul
preached to the congregation at Corinth and to get a glimpse of what "light"
he received.


Yeshua, being the "first fruits of those who are asleep" (1 Co 15:20) has
an "imperishable" body, not one of "flesh and blood"; otherwise, Yeshua
could not "inherit the kingdom of Hashem". It is true that Yeshua entered
"our world" as "flesh and blood".


John, in his first epistle also mentions that Yeshua indeed came into the
world as "flesh and blood" (also, in Jn 1:14) to combat the heretical notion
that Yeshua did not enter the world in human form:

1 Jn 4:1-3 (NASB):
------------------

1(A) Beloved, do not believe every (B)spirit, but test the spirits to see
whether they are from God, because (C)many false prophets have gone out
into the world.

2 By this you know the Spirit of God: (D)every spirit that (E)confesses that
(F)Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

3 and every spirit that (G)does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the
spirit of the (H)antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and (I)
now it is already in the world.
Resurrection of Jesus; symbolic? Quote
02-08-2009 , 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mempho
My paper runs correction reports on nearly a daily basis. Add to that, I routinely spot hard errors even in national news reports.
I think his point was that people who have years of training as writers, editors, and printers routinely make errors trying to report one days worth of news even though they all speak the same dialect of the same language. That doesn't bode well for the Bible trying to report a few thousand years worth of events, even if those who wrote them believed them all to be true and based them on their knowledge of actual events, most of which came from 2nd or 3rd+ hand sources.
Resurrection of Jesus; symbolic? Quote
02-08-2009 , 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad1970
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
You can't defend the accuracy of a book by quoting the book in question, lol.


Quote:
Can you prove this myth? How do you reconcile that to the fact that many people (500 at once) saw him after he was resurrected?
1 a: a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon b: parable , allegory

2 a: a popular belief or tradition that has grown up around something or someone ; especially : one embodying the ideals and institutions of a society or segment of society <seduced by the American myth of individualism — Orde Coombs> b: an unfounded or false notion

3: a person or thing having only an imaginary or unverifiable existence

Which of these does not apply to the resurrection story?
Resurrection of Jesus; symbolic? Quote
02-10-2009 , 12:18 PM
I heard there isn't even any evidence that Jesus existed.

Not that I give a ****...
Resurrection of Jesus; symbolic? Quote
02-10-2009 , 12:59 PM
excellent post
Resurrection of Jesus; symbolic? Quote
02-11-2009 , 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavensDevil
I heard there isn't even any evidence that Jesus existed.

Not that I give a ****...
Actually Jesus did not exist, but Yashua did.
Resurrection of Jesus; symbolic? Quote

      
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