Sent an email to my school district, that is all i can really do for now. Was not seeing the names of the text books on their web site.

I kind of find it funny that you guys would think that i was taught this stuff but just don't remember. It really isn't the kind of thing you just shrug off.

it doesn't even matter if you were taught it or not. also, you should move to Texas because they seem to feel the same way as you do about this.

It's not that people think that YOU were taught this stuff, it's that you keep arguing that it isn't taught in the majority of schools when everyone here has gone out of their way to tell you it is. They even have provided you with evidence that it is and you refuse to accept it.

I've come to think you're a decent enough chap gunth, and hate to see you struggle like this. You're probably wasting your time emailing your school, because you still will be no closer to winning your argument. The argument as I've been reading ITT is: You made a claim that religious history is not taught in schools. There are people, some just out of school, who are telling you they were taught it. Some went so far as to give you the names of their history book that it was in! I think it's probably best to just concede that while maybe YOU weren't taught it, you might have been wrong about the rest of the country.

Btw- Christianity was also thoroughly discussed in my school as well. I even remember a question about Pontius Pilate being on a test.

+1

Also Gunth, it is unclear whether or not you think public schools should be teaching the Bible AS history as opposed to teaching the history surrounding and that has evolved as a result of the Bible.

Should Noah's Ark be taught to kids as fact? Should the resurrection? How about future "history," as described in Revelation?

Or are you just talking about mentioning that according to a few third and fourth hand accounts there was a guy named Jesus who may or not have claimed to be divine, who was put on a cross, may or may not have died on it, etc...and then teaching how history was impacted by the early church, Constantine, Crusades, Middle Ages, Reformation, etc?

You can also add me as one who was absolutely taught the latter stuff in public school. The former stuff has absolutely no place in a taxpayer-funded school where children are required to go unless their parents have the means to put them in private school. Do you disagree? Should the state be indoctrinating kids into any particular religion via the public school system?

I think that religion's history along with it's impact on today's society should be thoroughly discussed. I think that this world has enough people that take God's Word as truth, that students should learn about it (now this world isn't ready for it to be presented as facts imo, but they should still learn "the theories"). I have no problem with them being able to make their own educated decisions. But at least in my district, students are not educated at all to that side of things. From my experience in public schools, they have tried to avoid it as much as possible, like it does not belong in the classrooms. Which is kind of ridiculous because it is a huge part of this world. I also think there should be optional Bible Courses students can opt in to take also if they want. Now Sixt4 has stated that this is available at his school, but that is outside of the U.S.

Who cares if it is with taxpayer's money. Enough people (at least in the U.S.) will have no problem with tax dollars going to this cause. Look how much NASA gets and the majority of Christians i think could care less about NASA findings. Every single thing that tax dollars go for, there is someone that doesn't want tax dollars going to that. That is life. In the U.S. you got one state handing out marijuana as medicine, in another state their budget is being tapped by locking so many people up for marijuana usage.

Anyone in the U.S. tell me a school that has presented Christianity like it was an actual possibility and gone into somewhat detail about it?

How necessary is it to do so when approx 79% of the U.S. Population self identifies as Christians and the rest are already familiar with Christianity?

During my Highschool years Franklin Graham talked to our school for about an hour. Everyone was required to attend. That day Graham's ministry had a ton of busses waiting to take people to a revival meeting held by Billy Graham at a concert venue in a nearby town. This is a public school by the way.

But myths of gods be it Christian or Greek are NOT an actual possibility from an academic standpoint. Just spit out what you're trying to say. Are you suggesting that you want to teach my kid that somebody once lived to be 800 years old is an actual possibility? That Noah rounded up two of every single species on earth and put them on a boat?

I don't consider myself an activist, but if any public school tried to teach that fairy tale crap as actual history to my kid, I'd pull him out of school and sue the district so fast it would make their heads spin.

You seem to be very confused between actual history and myth. Teach the actual history of Christianity and all major religions. Fine. But don't teach superstitious myths as though they were fact! That's what bible study schools are for.

I don't think this would be allowed in the US, and it definitely should not be. It's one thing to mention religion in a historical context, but another entirely to suggest a certain religion may be the truth.

I'm Jewish and want my kids (if/when they exist) to be raised Jewish. But if a teacher at a public school taught them Judaism and presented it as fact, I'd have huge problems with this. Separation of church and state is in the constitution and it's there for a reason. Even if all the parents got together and begged for this, it would still be a terrible and unconstitutional idea.

Yea, so lets just pretend to ignore that most the world see their religion as The Truth and that it is a very serious issue in the world.

Lets just present that we all evolved from monkeys like it was true.

Do you really go through life with those blinders on? Are you forgetting that 20% of the word's population are Muslim? Are you then suggesting that we teach Islam as though it were it true (i.e. Jesus isn't divine, Muhammad is being the one true prophet, etc.)?

Stop showing your ignorance! We didn't evolve from monkeys. Both monkeys and humans share a common ancestor. And yes. Like it IS true!

You are one thick ignorant stubborn man gunthy boy.

you've read through the current text books being used in your school district?

would you like a school to present Islam if it were true?

millions of americans believe it is so i'm sure you'd be fine with your tax dollars going towards presenting Islam as an actual possibility?

Pletho,

cat got your tongue?

You don't have to present Christianity as truth in order to teach about it. In the same way you weren't taught about ancient religions as if they were truth.

None of this has anything to do with evolution, and you would be better off not introducing another topic you know surprisingly little about, despite you having gone through high school and remembering all you were taught.

And let's not forget astrology. Many swear by it. Tomorrow is a 9 for me. Can't wait!

Yes, kids should be shown all sides of things. It is a very real issue in this world, and they should be educated.

The only ancestor we share is God.
I am working on all 3 things.

I am guessing you guys just skip past parts of my posts.

nope. saw that, and it has nothing to do with my question.

edit: to clarify, i mean equal footing as christianity

So your reasoning for more religious education, including teaching things as though they are an actual possibility, is that most people are religious? Are you SERIOUSLY not able to see the flaw in this reasoning, Gunth?

Let me do the really simple one for you and see if you can make the connection.

In the 1950's and before in Alabama, the vast majority of people believed African-Americans to be inferior beings, unworthy of being educated the same as whites, unworthy of sharing the same drinking fountains, housing, restaurants, access to voting, access to civic services, etc. If the majority of people feeling a certain way were to justify laws, crap like that would have NEVER been fixed in places like Alabama.

If the majority of people were atheists and decided to teach "Debunking the Bible" in public schools, you simply would not be singing the same tune. Like I said in an earlier post, you begin with a conclusion and work backwards from there.

It is absolutely HORRIBLE logic you use, again and again...which makes it unsurprising you wound up as a completely deluded, drinking the Biblical Kool-Aid, thinks god endorsed poker by having Jerry Yang win WSOP, thinks god can't see the difference between abandoning him and doing a school project type of person.

I really, seriously, honestly feel badly for you, Gunth. You've told me I have no idea what it means to follow god's word. That's not true -- I once believed (with lesser intensity) much as you do, growing up as a Southern Baptist. I have a very good idea what it is to be taught and to follow what protestant Christians claim is the word of god (you sound like a Protestant to me...in fact, you sound like a Baptist or a Pentecostal or Bible Church type person to me, but I obviously could be wrong).

In my opinion (which I realize you don't care about), you need to wake up and start challenging some of what you've been taught. See if it actually stands up to a reasonable-persons test. See if the Biblical contradictions can actually be reconciled...see if the philosophical and historical objections can actually be defeated. At the very least, doing so would moderate your views somewhat, and in most cases when someone is as far to one side of things as you (seem to be), that's a good thing.

Anyway...I'm done in this thread not because I hate you, but I've concluded that until you're willing to at least attempt to use actual logic to debate things, it's pointless to debate you. Your mind cannot be changed by logical discourse, evidence, or anything else. If that's the way you want to go through life, no one can stop you.....but man, it is sad. And it's not worth my time.

Best of luck.

What is the flaw?

And kids should of been taught in schools why the vast majority of people believed African-Americans to be inferior, instead of being taught they were.

The kid's should be taught the atheists views of the Bible also. Absolutely nothing wrong with teaching all sides of things.

Here you go with your insults.
I did not say that God endorses poker. I simply asked that if God is in control of all things, and Jerry Yang won the WSOP in His name, then why would He allows Yang to win if God is strictly against poker? It is amazing how many atheists dodged this question.

I did not claim i abandoned God by being tricked into breaking one of His Commandments. Try to twist words around some more, and learn to distinguish The Commandments while your at it.

We are the Church. Personally i don't go to Church right now. I feel like most of the things they teach in Church these days, i already know. And i get a better understanding studying God's Word on my own or discussing with people.
I woke up, that's just it. I wish you guys would too. There are no actual Biblical contradictions. I welcome you to find us one. You will be searching your whole life.
You prove to me that God's Word is false and i will hear you out. Until you can do that you are standing on nothing. If anything it is pointless to debate you because you will twist words around and use that to insult. And your right, no one can stop me, except The Father and The Son.

'Night.

Apes, not monkeys.

I don't think you'll find many educated atheists that disagree with this.



To preempt your "but no one really believes that" argument.

There is a difference between teaching religious history and religious doctrine. How hard is that for you to understand Gunth? In my AP Euro class 7 years ago I learned A LOT about the Roman Catholic Church's history and the Reformation, Counter-Reformation, all the Diets and Accords and how Protestantism affected England and Ireland, etc. Anything before the Scientific Revolution was basically about Christian history so I don't know what u are talking about. I even learned for the first time what transubstantiation was because our teacher went into the differing aspects of the religions but it was never taught as fact and we never had to read the bible.

To all the people amazed at Gunth's horrible logic and his unwillingness to recognise it: