oh god gangstaman edit your post before stu comes in this thread with his irrelevant wisdom of crowds spiel

Obama has a good speech concerning this issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdB1_KFOhnU

That was a horrible speech.

By the way, I gave you proof that Christianity is discussed in schools. Will you acknowledge your error?

I am not saying it is not discussed at all, but it is definitely not discussed to the extent that it should be.

And just because they are expected to teach some things, doesn't mean they don't just rush through it or skip it all together.

You have shown little understanding of these things in RGT Melchy.

Nor these.

Oh really?

Haha. Has he been itt yet? I don't remember seeing him, so maybe it's worth leaving the bait up...

I think we can trim it down even more, just for effect.

There's a lot of things outside of people's hands. Some children are very embarrassed by the mandatory health/sex education classes they are forced to attend. No one has any privacy any more.

Social History of Christianity was vaguely discussed, that was what i was saying, mostly 18th century. They did not discuss Jesus or God's Word at all in my schools. Nor did they discuss Christianity or other religions impact on today's society.

What does this have to do with privacy? It's ok that kids get embarrassed as that education is far more valuable that not blushing for 15 minutes. Are you actually about to claim that health and sex ed classes are bad for students?

i knew a kid who was terrible at math and got soooo embarrassed every time the teacher called on him in calc 2. OUT WITH THE MATH CLASSES!!!

Cars and food exist. When someone can show that gods are in any way likely to also exist, then we can lots of religious classes.

It's not about a majority/minority thing, it's about religion being dumb and completely baseless.

Okay, I'm convinced that you're not interested in religion from a historical standpoint, or what impact it has had on civilization. You want stuff like:

- And Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted there by the devil

- Now can anyone tell me the one unforgivable sin is and why we must accept Christ as our Savior?

It's not happening. Go to church or put your kid in Sunday school. You're not filling kids heads with that garbage on public tax dollars.

/end thread already

What have you got against churches? Your child's spiritual education is YOUR responsibility, not a public school. Take them to church. Or put them in Sunday school. As it is, your church takes in boat loads of money without paying a single penny in tax dollars. No other institution has this luxury.

Why do you think I should further have to pay for your kid to learn about YOUR religion?

This is the system that is used where I live (Ontario). You get to choose where your school taxes are applied -- to either the public system or the Roman Catholic system. Your children then go to schools in the system that you are helping to fund. My parents paid into the Roman Catholic system and I went to Roman Catholic schools.

The understanding is that if you don't go to the RC schools, you don't get any religious eduction.

In just about every school, children have the option of not attending such classes. All they need is a letter from their parents.

There is nobody (except maybe a few crazy whackjobs) who supports the teaching of religion as true in public schools. They support the teaching of their religion as true in public schools.

With this in mind, secularity is the only viable compromise. It's either that or religious persecution; take your pick. The "majority" card does not play, unless you turn a blind eye to political history and philosophy. A modern democracy is usually not intended as a tyranny of majority.

In my country politicans usually defer to experts on curriculum, which is good - the academic independence of schools is an important thing, regardless of monetary dependance.

Recently we've seen a US-ification where politicians comment on curriculum in popular media, which is unfortunate. Populism is no model for knowledge. Maybe the worst case happened in my neighbouring country Sweden a couple of years back, when a cabinet member tried to influence university curriculum...a near universal nono in a state that wants to be taken seriously, and also against the very laws and statutes of Sweden and its universities.

Yes it is the parent's responsibility but there's nothing wrong with buttressing it through additional programs.

The presumption is that our tax dollars enter into some kind of domain not touchable by us but they could observe separation of church and state inside the school by making religious education optional.

A lot of poor people would like religion taught to their kids but they don't always have the funds. So their personal preference is lost in the system.

People are assuming a church is the best teacher of religion but not necessarily. Also its a cop out to say one day of study is enough.

We are talking moral and spiritual education and that should be studied more thoroughly than any other subject. Only professional priests and ministers ever dedicate themselves fully and that's, I think, God's whole point in the bible. According to him we were meant to reach our fullest spiritual potential. He doesn't want followers only he wants to make leaders out of his followers. That is Christ's method with his Apostles. He apprentices them fully then releases them out into the world. Non-Christians it seems want Christians to not even reach their full potential but then they want to point at them and say "Look there goes a bad Christian". If you want good Christians then let them become good ones. Don't hinder them.

Yeah. I think this thread has come to a proper ending. It starts in the beginning with Gunth claiming that Jesus wasn't even mentioned in schools and ends with a complete and thorough beating. Not only are several common textbooks shown to have sections discussing Jesus and the rise of Christianity, National Board of Education Curriculum is excerpted which shows that these are to be taught throughout public schools, and of course, a good handful of posters all share the benefit of their experience where they confirm that they definitely learned about Jesus.

As a bonus- we got to see Gunth claim that he remembers everything he learned in high school 20 years ago, but can't remember the single name of a textbook he used.

Now Gunth is, of course, backpedaling and saying that "I am not saying it is not discussed at all, but it is definitely not discussed to the extent that it should be."

Backpedal complete.

I have to admit I was drinking iced coffee and nearly spit on my desk when I read this.

IMO, the kids that are embarrassed by health/sex ed classes have only their parents to blame. If you teach your kids to be ashamed of their bodies, certainly they may have problems when they're taught this sort of thing. Regardless of embarrassment, every human being should learn about health and how babies are made. Its the children whose parents raise them to be ignorant who get pregnant or STDs and have NO idea how it happened or that they could have prevented it.

Maybe these parents are too stupid to realize that church is free. I can't speak for all churches but all 3 churches I attended when I was young all offered free sunday school and free Bible Study programs for teenagers.

My brother's church has study option available 5 days a week. On top of that, most communities have free libraries filled with books on religion.

Let's face it, even Splendour must know that getting exposure and learning about Christianity is free and easy. There's clearly another motive operating here.

But yes, there is. Not on my tax dollar. I don't share your beliefs. Outside of learning from a historical standpoint, I think belief in religion is silly. Would you be okay if we added astrology to the curriculum?


Again, it costs nothing to go to church. And if religious teachings are that important who better to teach them than the church of your faith?

This is ROFL! So you're saying an atheist teacher is better qualified to teach your kid your religious beliefs? You can't possibly be thinking before you type. Or do you think we should institute a law barring atheists as teachers? On second thought, I probably don't want to know your answer to that.

OMG! Well I'll be sure to thank god that you are in no position to make these decisions! You can waste your kid's time teaching him about mythical fantasy. I'd rather my kid learn about math, science, and things that are useful in every day life.

I'm sure you're a nice person Splendour, but I dare say you are deep down a hypocrite and bigot! You think everyone should share YOUR beliefs. Learn what YOU want them to learn. Sorry. This country doesn't work that way I'm very glad to say. Our constitution is set up precisely so that people like you can't impose their will and beliefs on all.

Actually the Ophites where giving their own negativistic version long before atheists gave theirs.

Wow. I am shocked. Even though Gunth is ONE-HUNDRED PERCENT certain he would win this prop bet, and even though in his opinion it is EASY MONEY, nobody seems to have offered to back him yet.

Consider me thoroughly floored.