Religion is terrible - Page 5 - Religion, God, and Theology

Two Plus Two Forums Other Topics Religion, God, and Theology

Religion is terrible

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 5 of 6

1 2 3 4 5 6

Page 5 of 6

1 2 3 4 5 6

08-14-2010 , 10:07 AM

#101

Jibninjas

Stuck in a While loop

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 11,612

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butcho22

Welp, im convinced...

Not trying to convince you, just stating the facts.

Quote

08-14-2010 , 12:35 PM

#102

batair

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 16,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibninjas

Not trying to convince you, just stating the facts.

Not really. Most secular society's who have limited religion in government are far less terrible than theocracys.

Quote

08-15-2010 , 12:18 AM

#103

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,460

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibninjas

Not trying to convince you, just stating the facts.

Facts supported by...?

Quote

08-15-2010 , 01:06 AM

#104

Jibninjas

Stuck in a While loop

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 11,612

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

Facts supported by...?

history

Quote

08-15-2010 , 01:22 AM

#105

batair

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 16,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibninjas

history

Not really.

Quote

08-15-2010 , 09:47 AM

#106

sir

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 157

Religion makes people happy,it is not terrible,it is a tool that people use to do with their problems and to find a new way!

Quote

08-16-2010 , 11:06 AM

#107

Louis Cyphre

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 11,025

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir

Religion makes people happy,it is not terrible,it is a tool that people use to do with their problems and to find a new way!

What if this "solution" creates even more problems? You don't want to remove a brain tumor by smashing in the skull with a hammer and then cut away half the brain.

Quote

08-16-2010 , 12:28 PM

#108

kurto

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,634

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir

Religion makes people happy,it is not terrible,it is a tool that people use to do with their problems and to find a new way!

this is the kind of meaty fact filled posts that really get the debate going.

What if I could find people who religion didn't make a happy? Then what would sir's position be?

Quote

08-16-2010 , 12:36 PM

#109

Hardball47

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 13,308

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisCyphre

What if this "solution" creates even more problems? You don't want to remove a brain tumor by smashing in the skull with a hammer and then cut away half the brain.

Wow. That's certainly one way to put it.

Quote

08-17-2010 , 04:58 AM

#110

Chuckychess

banned

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 712

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butcho22

why didn't you answer my question about god appearing more/less complex than an atom? surely an entity who can poof all this into existence falls in your category of "complex informational system"???

God is eternal. Things that exist "forever" don't have a designer. If you can find a computer that always existed, then I will grant that it had no designer.

Quote

08-17-2010 , 05:01 AM

#111

Chuckychess

banned

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 712

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCJ311

Atheism is the most dangerous religion of all, because it takes away social unity. Government/science becomes God, every man is looking out for himself and the family unit is almost nonexistent.

Atheism is not a religion. I am a Christian, but I don't think that atheists as a group are morally inferior to Christians.

Quote

08-17-2010 , 05:53 AM

#112

loK2thabrain

Tiger > Jack

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23,203

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckychess

God is eternal. Things that exist "forever" don't have a designer. If you can find a computer that always existed, then I will grant that it had no designer.

please dont sidestep my question. using your own criteria, does god have the appearance of design?

Quote

08-17-2010 , 06:06 AM

#113

tame_deuces

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 18,062

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckychess

God is eternal. Things that exist "forever" don't have a designer. If you can find a computer that always existed, then I will grant that it had no designer.

Book of tame_deuces chapter 1, verse 1: "And lo, there was an eternal computer and it was 8bit".

I mean...if you won't use the term "complex informational system" fairly, then I insist on using the term "find" fairly.

Quote

08-17-2010 , 09:00 AM

#114

loK2thabrain

Tiger > Jack

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23,203

ah, yes. i have heard stories of the eternal 8 bit. good to know its confirmed true by your book - can't wait to share this with my buddies.

Quote

08-18-2010 , 01:26 AM

#115

Chuckychess

banned

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 712

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butcho22

please dont sidestep my question. using your own criteria, does god have the appearance of design?

Since God does not have a body, He doesn't "appear" to be designed or non-designed. No being that is eternal has a designer (which seems to be trivially true by definition).

Anyway, in the interest of precision I will restate by position: All created complex information systems require a designer. By definition, non-created beings like God don't have a designer.

Quote

08-18-2010 , 02:00 AM

#116

loK2thabrain

Tiger > Jack

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23,203

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckychess

Since God does not have a body, He doesn't "appear" to be designed or non-designed. No being that is eternal has a designer (which seems to be trivially true by definition).

All matter that isn't humans or animals do not have a body. Does that exclude matter from appearance of design, iyo?

Is anything that doesn't have a body, and isn't created/designed by humans absent of an appearance of design?

Quote:

Anyway, in the interest of precision I will restate by position: All created complex information systems require a designer. By definition, non-created beings like God don't have a designer.

Better

Quote

08-18-2010 , 02:08 AM

#117

Chuckychess

banned

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 712

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butcho22

Many things do not have the appearance of having been designed, like rocks and dirt. So, in general, I don't think that matter by itself appears to be designed. Theoretically, matter itself could have existed forever, IMO.

Quote

08-18-2010 , 02:36 AM

#118

loK2thabrain

Tiger > Jack

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23,203

ok, thank you. i'm used to most theists/christians saying the universe (which im assuming means matter by itself, so to speak) appears to be designed. if i make it more broad and ask you if the universe appears to be designed, is that a yes for you? (i think that's my last question)

Quote

08-18-2010 , 03:26 AM

#119

batair

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 16,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckychess

Even if Gods just pure thought his thoughts would have to be a complex information system.

Quote

08-18-2010 , 03:28 AM

#120

marleybob

banned

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 68

hmmmmmmm

Quote

08-18-2010 , 04:23 AM

#121

loK2thabrain

Tiger > Jack

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23,203

Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

Even if Gods just pure thought his thoughts would have to be a complex information system.

Yeah, but he pretty much already answered this in the second portion of his post. By adding the qualifier anything "created..." he gets to say that its a moot point. I don't agree with it but i didn't see a reason to bring it up because it's quite clear this is a pillar of his religious views that will not be knocked down.

Quote

08-18-2010 , 10:24 AM

#122

SixT4

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 2,924

If there can be a non-created "complex information system", then what's the problem? All the complex information systems around us are simply non-created, in the same way you hypothesize God is non-created.

Your whole premise was that complex information systems required intelligent design, but you've pointed out that this isn't true.

Quote

08-18-2010 , 01:19 PM

#123

batair

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 16,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butcho22

Im just arguing Gods thoughts/spirit would be a complex information system.

"All created complex information systems require a designer. By definition, non-created beings like God don't have a designer."

As for this. There really is no argument against it because its an assertion i cant prove or disprove and one of those tautology things i think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SixT4

Exactly.

Quote

08-20-2010 , 02:24 PM

#124

Chuckychess

banned

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 712

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butcho22

I would say that many things in the universe appear to have been designed. I also pointed out the theoretical possibillity that "the universe", particularly matter, has always existed.