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Religion and Republicans Religion and Republicans

09-25-2019 , 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
I didn't know if you knew that I was YEC. I was just trying to re-direct your question to the right thread.
This is the right thread. When politicians start basing their decisions, that affect the whole world, on what their imaginary friend tells them, this becomes the right thread.

America is the only first world country where anything like a significant percentage of the population actually believe these crazy things.

Fun fact for you - lagtight - while creationism might sound like some sort of ancient construct, it's actually not. Your founding fathers knew this was all a bunch of horseshit (if you don't believe me, read some of the letters they sent to one another which have since been published). Creationism is a purely political construct, started in about the 1850s, as an offspring of puritanism. The roots of prohibition are in both.

True Christianity has nothing to do with the literal interpretation of the bible. That's all politics, and it's a construct from the last couple of hundred years.

Not to mention the "Southern Strategy" etc, of the last 40 years. Funny how religion and racism seem inextricably intertwined. It's almost... like... they both have something in common? Maybe the inexorable urge to be the bigot your parents brought you up to be. Or maybe the inexorable urge to be the lofty anointed one that your parents brought you up to be.

That is in response to all the threads where I've seen you post.
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
As a YEC, I DO NOT believe that the Earth is young. Six-thousand of so years old doesn't seem young to me.😁
I bet that got them all rolling on the floor in your critical thinking class.
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 01:11 AM
Meanwhile, there is a slight problem. The problem is that if self-indulgent idiots like you don't get your finger out of your a/ss, your grandkids might not have a habitable planet.

I'm sure your imaginary friend will fix that, though, right?
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 01:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
This is the right thread. When politicians start basing their decisions, that affect the whole world, on what their imaginary friend tells them, this becomes the right thread.

America is the only first world country where anything like a significant percentage of the population actually believe these crazy things.

Fun fact for you - lagtight - while creationism might sound like some sort of ancient construct, it's actually not. Your founding fathers knew this was all a bunch of horseshit (if you don't believe me, read some of the letters they sent to one another which have since been published). Creationism is a purely political construct, started in about the 1850s, as an offspring of puritanism. The roots of prohibition are in both.

True Christianity has nothing to do with the literal interpretation of the bible. That's all politics, and it's a construct from the last couple of hundred years.

Not to mention the "Southern Strategy" etc, of the last 40 years. Funny how religion and racism seem inextricably intertwined. It's almost... like... they both have something in common? Maybe the inexorable urge to be the bigot your parents brought you up to be. Or maybe the inexorable urge to be the lofty anointed one that your parents brought you up to be.

That is in response to all the threads where I've seen you post.
So, my Founding Fathers (who signed the DOI in 1776) were critiquing "creationism" about 70 years BEFORE creationism was constructed in the 1850's? Well, my Founding Fathers were amazing, weren't they? Either that, or you've been drinking again. ��
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09-25-2019 , 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
I bet that got them all rolling on the floor in your critical thinking class.
Yes, in addition to being very smart, I have a great sense of humor.
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 01:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Meanwhile, there is a slight problem. The problem is that if self-indulgent idiots like you don't get your finger out of your a/ss, your grandkids might not have a habitable planet.

I'm sure your imaginary friend will fix that, though, right?
I don't have any kids or grandkids. No woman in her right mind would marry me.
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
I'm not a bible scholar.
Perhaps the only true statement you've made.

Quote:
My understanding is that there are some pretty outlandish stories in Genesis. Like, maybe that woman is the product of man's rib? Do you believe that to be more, less, or as credible as the young earth thing?
I find it less outlandish, but that's because of how the theology is constructed. I think the the linchpin of YEC is the YEC part of YEC. Once you accept that, the rest is much easier to adopt.
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
This is the right thread. When politicians start basing their decisions, that affect the whole world, on what their imaginary friend tells them, this becomes the right thread.

America is the only first world country where anything like a significant percentage of the population actually believe these crazy things.

Fun fact for you - lagtight - while creationism might sound like some sort of ancient construct, it's actually not. Your founding fathers knew this was all a bunch of horseshit (if you don't believe me, read some of the letters they sent to one another which have since been published). Creationism is a purely political construct, started in about the 1850s, as an offspring of puritanism. The roots of prohibition are in both.

True Christianity has nothing to do with the literal interpretation of the bible. That's all politics, and it's a construct from the last couple of hundred years.

Not to mention the "Southern Strategy" etc, of the last 40 years. Funny how religion and racism seem inextricably intertwined. It's almost... like... they both have something in common? Maybe the inexorable urge to be the bigot your parents brought you up to be. Or maybe the inexorable urge to be the lofty anointed one that your parents brought you up to be.

That is in response to all the threads where I've seen you post.
Who determines what "true" Christianity is? You?
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 01:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Meanwhile, there is a slight problem. The problem is that if self-indulgent idiots like you don't get your finger out of your a/ss, your grandkids might not have a habitable planet.

I'm sure your imaginary friend will fix that, though, right?
1. What makes you think that I'm self-indulgent? Do you think that I drink as much as you?

2. I'll defer to the wisdom of the discerning readers of this thread to decide if I'm an idiot or not. You and I are probably biased on that point.
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 06:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
So, my Founding Fathers (who signed the DOI in 1776) were critiquing "creationism" about 70 years BEFORE creationism was constructed in the 1850's? Well, my Founding Fathers were amazing, weren't they? Either that, or you've been drinking again. ��
Firstly, lol at thinking that just because a concept didn't exist in the public imagination en masse, that it didn't exist at lol.

The 2nd amendment was ratified in 1791, yet it applies to AK47s (which were invented in, you guessed it, 1947), right?

Cognitive dissonance is a *****, huh?

They were critiquing [sic] fundamentalist religion in general. Why do you think there is a clause for separation of church and state? I'm not here to proselytise for atheism, so I'm not doing your research for you. Google it yourself. Or not.

Last edited by d2_e4; 09-25-2019 at 07:14 AM.
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09-25-2019 , 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
1. What makes you think that I'm self-indulgent? Do you think that I drink as much as you?

Pretty hard to drink as much as I do, but I certainly welcome you to try. Alas, no, I meant your massive ego, and the sweet fragrance of sanctimony which I have learnt through Pavlovian training to associate with those who share your beliefs.

2. I'll defer to the wisdom of the discerning readers of this thread to decide if I'm an idiot or not. You and I are probably biased on that point.

Sample bias, and not in your favour.
.
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
Who determines what "true" Christianity is? You?
Yes, Jesus spoke to me last night and told me as much.

Prove me wrong.
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
I find it less outlandish, but that's because of how the theology is constructed. I think the the linchpin of YEC is the YEC part of YEC. Once you accept that, the rest is much easier to adopt.
Oh, right. Hang on, I just ran that through Google translate. Bullshit to English. It came out with this:

"Once you start believing in magic, anything is possible, you just need to believe in magic in the first place. Magic is the linchpin of it all".

Really, Aaron, you are not making much effort any more. Have I finally broken you?
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Firstly, lol at thinking that just because a concept didn't exist in the public imagination en masse, that it didn't exist at lol.

The 2nd amendment was ratified in 1791, yet it applies to AK47s (which were invented in, you guessed it, 1947), right?

Cognitive dissonance is a *****, huh?
Actually, I am a proponent of many types of gun control. And I DO NOT believe that the second amendment necessarily applies to AK-47's.
Quote:
They were critiquing [sic] fundamentalist religion in general. Why do you think there is a clause for separation of church and state? I'm not here to proselytise for atheism, so I'm not doing your research for you. Google it yourself. Or not.
Quote from Patrick Henry: "Here is a Book [The Bible] worth more than all the other books which were ever printed;"

Quote from Thomas Jefferson: "I have always said, and always will say, that the studious perusal of the Sacred Volume will make us better citizens, better fathers and better husbands."

Quote from John Quincy Adams: "I say to you, Search the Scriptures ! The Bible is The Book of all others , to be read at all ages, and in all conditions of human life; not to be read once or twice or thrice through, and then laid aside, but to be read in small portions of one or two chapters every day, and never to be intermitted, unless by some overruling necessity".

Patrick Henry and John Quincy Adams and TJ sound an awful like the Fundies of today, do they not?

Last edited by lagtight; 09-25-2019 at 09:45 AM.
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Yes, Jesus spoke to me last night and told me as much.

Prove me wrong.
The Queen of England spoke to me last night. Prove me wrong.

And an hour after that, I was abducted by aliens for twenty minutes. Prove me wrong.
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
I don't have any kids or grandkids. No woman in her right mind would marry me.
I know this was probably sarcasm, and you probably found some poor god-fearing girl to enslave in marriage, in my case it is actually true. I have no kids.

I still care about the future, though. I can't put it better than George Carlin did - "The planet? The planet will be just fine. The people? Oh, they're f/cked."

Last edited by d2_e4; 09-25-2019 at 09:48 AM. Reason: Period inside or outside the quote, Aaron?
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
The Queen of England spoke to me last night. Prove me wrong.

And an hour after that, I was abducted by aliens for twenty minutes. Prove me wrong.
I don't need to. DUCY?
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
Actually, I am a proponent of many types of gun control. And I DO NOT believe that the second amendment necessarily applies to AK-47's.
Have you ever heard of "analogy"?

You the whole point.
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
It's fine. Certain posters have a very low signal-to-noise ratio, and it's easy to skip past things if you're just skimming around.



Here's something on the rise of the religious right and how it got tied up in political conservatism (basically, social issues):

https://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpress...&brand=ucpress

From there, you kind of have to be careful what you mean by the religious right, as different people take it different ways. If you are broadly speaking about "religious on the right" then you'll get one story. If you are talking more specifically about the "Religious Right" as a movement, you'll get another one. The former still exists (there are definitely religious people on the right), but the "Religious Right" is a dead political movement that was weakened over the Clinton presidency, and basically killed by Bush Jr.

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2012/05/5216/



We see remnants of that time, such as the Falwell Jr.'s existence at Liberty University and the things that they're doing, and you see hints of some of that same posturing in Franklin Graham's statements (I don't think he was politically active in the late 1980s/early 1990s -- but some still label him as "Religious Right" meaning something akin to the political movement), but it's far from clear how much influence is actually wielded by those people.

Liberty University is kind of falling apart right now.

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/15/76104...alwell-scandal



And Trump's presence there a couple years back wasn't exactly a clean win for him:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/u...ity-trump.html



A lot of younger Christians don't even know who Franklin Graham is beyond having something to do with "Operation Christmas Child" which is a Christmas gift program, and most don't really know a lot about his politics. His draw is much stronger with the older Christian conservative population that are looking for something like the "Religious Right" of 40 years ago.

So when you're looking for effects today, you're going to be looking at something like secondary or tertiary effects. The core of the movement is dead. Those older white Evangelicals are still around, but they're starting to fade. And maybe the Trump presidency is slowly pushing them even further out of the mainstream.
Religious Right was probably not the correct term for me to use as that implies the actual movement of the same name. I meant that the party leadership is clearly led by religious types and is fairly intolerant of nominating atheists. It's clear that it is necessary to bow to certain religious figures to receive any support on a national level. I think there is virtually no question that there are pols that would identify as "religious none" but can't do so publicly as that is an apparent political death sentence.

That is a problem for the party particularly as fewer people (particularly young people) identify as atheist or agnostic.
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Really, Aaron, you are not making much effort any more. Have I finally broken you?
Nah. I just find your posting to be childish and not really worth my time. My position is that if you want to criticize YEC, you should criticize YEC. There are other aspects of theology that may or may not be consistent with the view you're attempting to espouse, as they are not necessarily tied to YEC.

So now I'm just shrugging you off. You had your chance. You proved that you have not changed over the last few years in your posting integrity.

Last edited by Aaron W.; 09-25-2019 at 11:10 AM.
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwslim69
Religious Right was probably not the correct term for me to use as that implies the actual movement of the same name. I meant that the party leadership is clearly led by religious types and is fairly intolerant of nominating atheists. It's clear that it is necessary to bow to certain religious figures to receive any support on a national level. I think there is virtually no question that there are pols that would identify as "religious none" but can't do so publicly as that is an apparent political death sentence.

That is a problem for the party particularly as fewer people (particularly young people) identify as atheist or agnostic.
[Presumably, you mean "more people identify as atheist or agnostic...]

Yes, the rise of the "religious nones" has been a problem for Republicans. Part of the underlying issue was the tie between Republicanism and social conservatism, where that social conservatism was originally due to the actual Religious Right movement. The underlying logic/philosophy of contemporary social conservatism is the Bible. There are not (were not?) any secular arguments to be made in that direction.

So yes, there was distrust thrown in the direction of atheists, and there was a religious litmus test for many people seeking office. A lot of those people are now in the older voting bloc, which means that they're (1) not changing their views and (2) voting at a higher frequency than other groups. So yes, that's a big problem.
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09-25-2019 , 01:52 PM
Correct Aaron I misstated
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09-25-2019 , 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
Yes, in addition to being very smart, I have a great sense of humor.
Perhaps you should have prayed a bit more, then you could have been those things.

Or, maybe, you, know, dumped your little imaginary friend ("God", is it), and wnet all BTK on their ass. I mean, he killed only 20 or something, you can do better!
Religion and Republicans Quote
09-25-2019 , 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
Nah. I just find your posting to be childish and not really worth my time. My position is that if you want to criticize YEC, you should criticize YEC. There are other aspects of theology that may or may not be consistent with the view you're attempting to espouse, as they are not necessarily tied to YEC.

So now I'm just shrugging you off. You had your chance. You proved that you have not changed over the last few years in your posting integrity.
Not true. I've kept you hooked for something like 4 years. I had to adapt tactics along the way. I'd say that's a pretty effective troll.

gg bro
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09-25-2019 , 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
I know this was probably sarcasm, and you probably found some poor god-fearing girl to enslave in marriage, in my case it is actually true. I have no kids.

I still care about the future, though. I can't put it better than George Carlin did - "The planet? The planet will be just fine. The people? Oh, they're f/cked."
I am not now, nor have I ever been, married.

I don't even know what you mean by "enslave in marriage", but at this point I don't care.

Since this is all just apparently fun and games for you, I won't engage you any further.

I believe I have made a good-faith effort to engage you. In my opinion, you have not done the same.

I will not respond to any of your posts any more, but I will read them.

I will be praying for you.

May peace be with you.
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