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Religion, God, and Theology Discussion of God, religion, faith, theology, and spirituality.

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Old 11-20-2017, 12:40 AM   #1101
d2_e4
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Re: Religion and logic

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Originally Posted by d2_e4 View Post
Ok, let's not make this about me. Can you just answer the following with binary answers?

1. Do you believe in god?
2. Do you believe Jesus was the son of god?
3. Do you believe Jesus' mother was a Virgin?
4. Do you believe Noah lived to be 600 years old?
5. Do you believe Jesus was resurrected?

Ok, those were a bit easy (hopefully). Now for an essay question.

Do you consider yourself a Christian because you feel that morality is derived from an otherworldly source and is not an innate human quality?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whenever you're ready, Aaron
Whenever you're ready. Of course, you can keep deflecting. Your move.
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:23 AM   #1102
Aaron W.
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Re: Religion and logic

I've made my decision. It's time for you to make yours.
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:28 AM   #1103
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Re: Religion and logic

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Morally permissible genocide? You are trolling.
Thank you for your thoughtful response to my post. Have a blessed day.
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:31 AM   #1104
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Re: Religion and logic

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Originally Posted by Aaron W. View Post
Here is an example of Daniel repenting on behalf of others:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...9&version=NASB

Notice the repeated use of first person plural. His confession and his intercession are for the community. Here, we have an individual confessing on behalf of others. This is opposite of what you're asking for (which I'll get to below).



In the book of Jonah, do you believe that literally every single person repented? That there wasn't just one person in the very large city that was sleeping during Jonah's preaching? Or in the book of Exodus, do you think that literally every single person contributed to and worshipped the golden calf? Or what about Sodom and Gomorrah? Would he not spare the whole city if ten were found to be righteous?

It seems clear that community matters.
Thanks, Aaron. That makes sense to me.
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Old 11-20-2017, 03:20 PM   #1105
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Re: Religion and logic

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Originally Posted by Herbavorus_Rex View Post
- Job's family wasn't all that great and he got a new one and had more wealth than prior to the ordeal
Because wealth is the important thing, just ask any televangelist.

btw, wasn't Job also the guy who offered up his daughters to be raped? Great guy!

Such a great book, the Bible. Best way to create atheists is to force people to read it completely. So full of inconsistencies, contradictions, misogyny, racism, bigotry...

How any sane person considers it "the good book" is amazing.
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Old 11-20-2017, 05:07 PM   #1106
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Re: Religion and logic

No, that wasn't Job, it was Lot. The Bible isn't easy.

BTW Here's a verse for you:

Who are these who fly like a cloud,
And like doves to their roost?
Isaiah 60:8
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:15 PM   #1107
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Re: Religion and logic

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The idea is that God makes the rules for humans. The rules don't exist without God. God designed human morality, presented the guidelines to us, and we are obligated to follow them. When in some specific instance he gives direct orders to kill, when even it is in opposition to His general guidelines, it is still morally correct de facto. It is similar to exceptions to "do not kill" for reasons of self-defense. God's orders are greater than morality. I'm sure you know of divine command theory.
Kierkegaard described Abraham as a Knight of Faith, because his commitment of obedience to God was so strong as to overcome his normal ethical objections to killing his own son. I recognize that this is a consistent view of morality, that if God says to do something, then you have to do it, but I think it is a dangerous one. A faith that supercedes morality is also how we get terrorism and Nazism. The description of the Amalekite genocide seems to me the same basic variety of evil.

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Going further with this theory, the next question that follows is whether in modern times can anybody violate moral law and say it was okay by claiming he was given orders from God? The answer is no. According to religious scholars, direct orders from God was a procedure that only occurred in ancient times of the Old Testament. Later passages in the Bible along with the lack of such events indicate that such commands won't occur again. In modern times, they should always be considered invalid clams.
Most orthodox Christians believe the canon is closed, but they would not say that God no longer speaks directly to people today. For instance, the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

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"Throughout the ages, there have been so-called "private" revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church."
Other Christian sects, such as Quakers and Pentecostals, feature God speaking to them in their regular services.
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:43 AM   #1108
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Re: Religion and logic

If you take the text at face value, it's probably a lot easier for a guy to off his kid on God's command if he's had angels visiting him and his wife finally conceived after years of trying when she was 80 as the angels had promised.
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:38 AM   #1109
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Re: Religion and logic

Here is one that was never logical to me. Why does God need an army in the Battle of Armageddon. Shouldn't he be a one man army....

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Old 11-21-2017, 01:48 AM   #1110
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Re: Religion and logic

If God's kingdom comes to fruition as prophesied in the book of Daniel - his government smashing all the others, I wonder if he's going to comply with the U.N.?
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Old 11-21-2017, 02:15 AM   #1111
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Re: Religion and logic

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Originally Posted by Pokerlogist View Post
No, that wasn't Job, it was Lot. The Bible isn't easy.

BTW Here's a verse for you:

Who are these who fly like a cloud,
And like doves to their roost?
Isaiah 60:8
Starlings?
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Old 11-21-2017, 05:38 AM   #1112
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Re: Religion and logic

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Such a great book, the Bible. Best way to create atheists is to force people to read it completely.
This is what did it for me.
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Old 11-21-2017, 06:40 PM   #1113
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Re: Religion and logic

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Starlings?
Airline pilots. That was meant for W0X0F who is one, I think.


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Old Yesterday, 01:45 AM   #1114
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Re: Religion and logic

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Originally Posted by W0X0F View Post

Such a great book, the Bible. Best way to create atheists is to force people to read it completely. So full of inconsistencies, contradictions, misogyny, racism, bigotry...
That's an amazingly stupid reason to become an atheist.

Brilliant logic:

In your mind there exists a book that talks about God, but you believe
the book is faulty. Ergo: There is no God.

My conclusion is that you are really stupid, or you are lying.
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Old Yesterday, 03:38 AM   #1115
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Re: Religion and logic

Reading the bible didn't prove to me that there was no god (of course I still am not absolutely certain of that). It did make me hate the (theoretical) Christian / Jewish / Muslim god. I think no one who read the complete bible with some intelligence and an open mind could not think the god described is to be hated. It's rather like reading about Hitler.

Last edited by chillrob; Yesterday at 03:47 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 03:54 AM   #1116
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Re: Religion and logic

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Originally Posted by festeringZit View Post
That's an amazingly stupid reason to become an atheist.

Brilliant logic:

In your mind there exists a book that talks about God, but you believe
the book is faulty. Ergo: There is no God.


My conclusion is that you are really stupid, or you are lying.
More like ii never read it or put much thought into the bible beyond what was thought to me in Church and church school. But when i started my conformation classes i decided to read it. Some of what i was reading was blowing my mind and unbelievable. Id ask the conformation teacher and my Priest questions but the belief the bible came from a God was gone along with a belief in one. My faith was never very thought out so it did not take much to shake it and reading the bible did. Might be dumb but it is how i lost my belief also.
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Old Yesterday, 01:13 PM   #1117
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Re: Religion and logic

I think the best way to appreciate the brilliance of God is think about what it takes to create a functional sustainable government, then compare His government to the alternative models.

Gods government: Your family receives land basically for free (numbers 33:54)

Alternative governments: you get jack sh**, the most conniving player and his friends wind up with all the chips.
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Old Yesterday, 01:24 PM   #1118
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Re: Religion and logic

God's government; whack off part of your penis or spend eternity burning.
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Old Yesterday, 01:37 PM   #1119
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Re: Religion and logic

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God's government; whack off part of your penis or spend eternity burning.
One needs to cut away the bs or they're going to get offed is a fair evaluation.
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Old Yesterday, 10:00 PM   #1120
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Re: Religion and logic

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Originally Posted by W0X0F View Post
Because wealth is the important thing, just ask any televangelist.

btw, wasn't Job also the guy who offered up his daughters to be raped? Great guy!

Such a great book, the Bible. Best way to create atheists is to force people to read it completely. So full of inconsistencies, contradictions, misogyny, racism, bigotry...

How any sane person considers it "the good book" is amazing.
The Bible is a book of history, and just like most history books, it's full
of the good, bad, and ugly behavior in human kind. Not sure why
this surprises you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3ldslnrq2A
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Old Yesterday, 11:36 PM   #1121
lagtight
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Re: Religion and logic

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God's government; whack off part of your penis or spend eternity burning.
Typical "smart teenager" comment.
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