A lot of the threads here have been atheist started and christian derailed. So I thought I'd start a thread actually FOR Chrisians as a token of good measure. Here's a verse.

I Peter 3:13-16
Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. “Do not fear their threats; do not be frightened.” But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

So discuss here and less on threads where such posts "do not reflect the tone of the OP".

What is your reason for the hope that you have?

What is the reason for the hope that I have?

Obviously, the reasons are manifold. I believe that the gospel-life lived out leads to a better quality of life, and more and deeper friendships and relationships. I have argued this in my thread on Pascal's wager. The idea that the Word of God applied to daily living creates a better quality of life is an idea that cannot be ignored. If the Word is really inspired by God, it should indeed meet this criteria.

I believe that the inspired word of God speaks to man's heart and soul and confirms itself in man. The Bible, to me, is the greatest, most powerful collection of spiritual works ever written. I speak as a creative writing major who has personally studied literature from Kerouac to Frost. Only the Word possesses that certain unction, that incandescent inspiration that draws men's hearts and plants itself in that fertile soil. If there is a way, then the Word is that way. The inspired Word itself I view as an evidence for my hope.

I have hope because I see a universe that has inherent purpose written into it's fabric. I see the secular scientists twist themselves into pretzels in order to make sense of existence. I won't delve too much into this because this debate has been worked to death on this forum. I will just state that I have hope because a universe does not appear out of hopelessness.

I have hope because of the genuine and authentic love I see within the body of Christ. I see them feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, praying for the sick. I know that when I considered myself an atheist, I had a warped caricature of the church and its members. How I wish I could bring all of you on a field trip to a church, so that you can remember, or experience brotherhood and Christian love up close, and see exactly what it is that you buck against. I have this hope because I have seen lives transformed by that love.

I have hope because I believe that Jesus is risen. He has been elevated. The gospel message converts souls and hearts. There is real, substantial authority to it.

Now, I did not want to venture into fulfilled prophecy and miracles and philosophical arguments here. Though those gird my hope as well.

I hope you find my response satisfactory to answer the question.

Quite frankly, this all sounds like bad fiction.

I call BS.

That definitely answers the question. And I agree with a lot of it too. I was in the boat. I commiserate with atheists on forum, and at the end of the day that's what I label myself as, but the view of Christianity they are portraying is a warped view. It's ashame for the sake of Christianity that the ignorant tend to be its face more often than not while atheism has intellectuals presenting it to the masses (though on a side note it's unfortunate that militant atheism and the "attacks on fundies" is what is thought of for my side because it also is a warped view). I have seen the good in it, but it also doesn't deny the bad. And also I've seen the bad sugar coated in the good. Like a kid born to a Christian household that is gay, and everything is love and sunshine and flowers except one of the very core parts of him, and it sucks for those kids.

I would say the good of Christianity outweighs the good, but I don't think that good is dependent on the cross. I just think religion motivates us to utilize the good that's already in us.

Either way I would say your reason(s) is experiental, which is great and what it boils down to. But your experience is not universal. There's a muslim you out there just as firm in a different set of beliefs for honestly the same reason. That's not to say yours are wrong, but you also can't be haughty in assuming you've found the one true way.

Anyway, I liked your response. It's pretty much right what I was getting at.

and lol

I'll try to make a brief comment but supporting and denying what Dogg has posted.

The gist of my comment is that much of what Doggg says is true. That a religious life can improve your quality of life, aid in deeper friendships. The 'inspired word of God' can speak to one's heart and soul. And it can give some meaning to some's existence. And many religious organizations do charitable works

That being said, this is not true of just HIS God. Believers of other faiths make the very same claims.

With most religions comes a religious community. Being part of a supportive community that shares a belief system is very positive. WHETHER OR NOT THEIR BELIEF SYSTEM IS TRUE IS IRRELEVENT. Whether you're Christian, Muslim, Mormon or other... this is true for all. The fact that they all speak to different truths doesn't change the positive parts of the religions existing.

That being said, ALL of these positive traits can and are found outside of religion. It just happens to be one way to find many of these positive things.

As an atheist... what I lack the most is the sense of community. I have a born again brother and I envy the community he has through his church. That being said, I find great satisfaction, love and sense of purpose in the friends and family I have, the job I do and the interests I pursue.

And to me, the great things offered by religion don't cancel out the bad things I see and the fact that to me its so grossly nonsensical and irrational.

In summary... much of what Doggg says is spot on. I only point out that there's nothing unique about his belief system and that other belief systems have the same benefits while making contradictory (and equally faith based) statements.

This is a great post! The idea can appeal to all sides of the issue: Why we believe what we believe? We all have reasons.

To believe in nothing is itself a belief. To not have belief is to not exist. Anyhow, enuf philosophical word games.....

"To answer with gentleness and respect," this is an essential idea that encompasses proper discussion and dialectics. This is an area where I think we all could use some help (I sincerely mean this for myself first).

My reasons for believing in God and ultimately Jesus Christ would cover a lot, a lot of space. So, I just want mention a brief instance of my life.

There was a time that I had rejected God completely and I was absolutely done with it all. I was sick of it and fed up with it. Essentially I said "F it!!!!!!!!" But, I found two ideas extremely compelling and could not past them.

1. Christians believed in the End of the world &, or Apocalypse. Since December 2nd 1942 at approx. 3:20pm Oppenheimer and those guys of the Manhattan Project cracked the problem of nuclear fission and ushered mankind into the nuclear age. We no longer need nature to destroy ourselves: we can do it ourselves with a simple push of a button.

2. Israel and the Jews: I find everything that the Hebrews have gone through can not have just merely coincidentally have happened.
The Jews have been so utterly persecuted. They have suffered so greatly. They are the only People to have gone what they have gone through. They went through a great diaspora, retained their identity and have become a nation again. No other people have been able to do this: the only other people to do anything like this lasted until the 5th generation.
There are multiple, multiple passages in the Bible about Israel's return. One of the most compelling is Deuteronomy 30:1-5, Where ever I scatter and disperse you I will gather you up from among the nations(abridged).
That coupled with the Russian antisemitism and Hitler's "seemingly random" choice of Jewish Genocide spoke volumes to me. Not to mention Jewish persecution elsewhere throughout the ages.
The Six Days War was no accident. Israel was not only surrounded by 5 nations but was massively outnumbered.

These two ideas caused me to reevaluate my position. There was and is no way in my mind that this is just a coincidence.

I know, right? There are many events that can't be coincidence. The other day I stopped at a red light. Mere seconds later, a car approached. Had I not stopped..to think I escaped certain death by just a couple of inches...coincidence? I think not.

I observed the same thing about the Jews.

And so did Pascal and so have others.

Quote:

Over 300 years ago King Louis XIV of France asked Blaise Pascal, the great French philosopher, to give him proof of the supernatural. Pascal answered: “Why, the Jews, your Majesty—the Jews.”

The Miracle of Jewish History
http://www.simpletoremember.com/arti...ewish_history/


Pascal and Percy on the Jews as a "Sign":
http://jp2forum.blogspot.com/2011/04...s-as-sign.html

I made some interesting observations about the universe and as it turns out so did Stephen Hawking.

Btw, OP...as an aside...if you remember our discussion about Jesus Christ's return date.

You said he had failed to return....I said it was still in the future.

Maybe you want to explain how Jesus Christ was suppose to return earlier when the Psalms say:

He remembers his covenant forever,
the promise he made, for a thousand generations,
9 the covenant he made with Abraham,
the oath he swore to Isaac.
10 He confirmed it to Jacob as a decree,
to Israel as an everlasting covenant:
11 “To you I will give the land of Canaan
as the portion you will inherit.”


Do you really think the thousand generations are up? How long is a generation and when did they start the clock to count from?

Post above strictly a question for DukeofDeath.

≠ Jesus's return

Convince the Jews it does first and then maybe I'll listen.

Doggg,

I have never understood why the Bible NEEDS to be the inerrant, inspired "Word of God". I read the Bible regularly, and have done so since childhood. It is an incredible read, and there is so much in it to inspire us to be the best HUMANS we can be. Jesus was the greatest humanist that ever lived!

Why can't we just accept the Bible for what it is -- the best example of man's attempt to explain God, and how humans have in the past, and should in the future, interact with each other? In the end, it's still just a book written by man, not God.

Faith is an illusory feeling lacking reason (e.g. you can be made to believe that Jesus is a Satan and Satan is Jesus, no problem, just basic brain washing that your good is bad and my bad is good), while reason is a dead duck lacking feeling (e.g. the reason can say there is no God but it doesn't mean there is no God but just that the person saying there is no God is not seeing there to be God; God is in everything as the natural laws, and religiously in the feelings, being psychology). Both are needed if there is going to be any sense at all when it comes to religion. At this time there are mainly only the two types; the believers and the rationals and both are half blind.

I have yet to find a "religion" that doesn't forsake one for the other at some point.

Why aren't you looking yourself instead of accepting atheists inaccuracies on the bible?

The bible is a believer's book.

Do you really think a bunch of people with a spirit of rebellion know the bible? The bible is God's thoughts revealed to mankind. It's the closest thing we have to the mind of God. Don't you have to be in the Spirit first to interpret it?

Believe me, if your own mind is in rebellion raising objections all the time you can't be in the Spirit with God. If your own mind is breaking the peace with Him you aren't meek, you can't be in agreement with Him, you can't be in the "Amen" spirit and you'll never learn a thing from Him.

cf. Revelation 1:10

I never cited an atheist in my response. I guarantee you people of faith will even interpret it the same way.

If you say that someone can't interpret the Bible without the Holy Spirit and can't have the Holy Spirit without Faith and can't have Faith without accepting what the Bible says, then how's that supposed to work out?

If you listen closely you can actually hear Splendour's argument crumbling.

Why don't you research into that yourself. It's been 6 or 7 years since I read up on it. I suggest searching John Wesley's sermons or perhaps picking up a copy of "Spurgeon on the Holy Spirit".

Don't forget to look into and ask questions about the meaning of "repentance". It's not faith alone. Repentance is always part of the process.

Sorry for thinking you were under Hagarene influences. But as Spurgeon points out based on Galatians 4:22-29 the sons of God are always opposed by the children of the bondwoman.

"You will find, dear friend, that if you enjoy the fellowship with God, if you live in the spirit of adoption, if you are brought near to the Most High, so as to be a member of the divine family, immediately all those who are under bondage to the law will quarrel with you." quoted from Charles Spurgeon's "Spurgeon on the Holy Spirit".

My thoughts obviously in red.

If OP's stated intent were true, this should've ended the thread

And yet, it didn't. Go figure.

I think the Holy Spirit should really be thought of as always around, and pretty much everyone hears it. Kind of something like this:

I mean..you really can't say there wasn't a Holy Spirit in the OT with all the verses that contain, "And the spirit of the Lord came upon him."

The everyone hears it part...Idk too lazy right now. but read John 3:13 - 21 changing 'believe' to 'live by', and with the understanding that we all got booted out of heaven first. Makes those verses make a lot more sense, and takes the few verses that people use to make their "chant" over "deeds" doctrine away, that are in contrast to the many more verses like:

So we all hear the good voice, and we actually think that that voice is us, but we're really what we do. So since we hear that good voice, some people are deluded into thinking that they're really a good person, overlooking what they actually do.

Wow.

I don't think I can lower myself to an intellectual level that could possibly make you look even close to a **** Sapien.

Dogg and Splendour have derailed a ton of threads. I wanted to give them (and others) a chance to redeem themselves and actually cast their beliefs in a pleasant light.

I thought Dogg achieved just that and was satisfied. I really would have been fine leaving it there (and of course still open for other believers to share their positive stories).

But of course Splendour has who knows what goals in mind.

You obviously are deluded into thinking the bad voice (Lucifer's holy spirit, if you will) is good. Not many make that mistake and openly voice it.

But really, you're statement isn't far off if you change lower to raise. I'm a human+being and you're just all animal with your being being a total slave to your animal (which Lucifer speaks through).