All you need to understand is that the *Intelligence* has been around long before the body caught up. The body that had no meaning was like the ant, just doing its business, paving the way for the imagination to connect with its counterpart, the flesh. Let's call it "manifestation", not evolution.

Now why would this manifestation want to get cancer and die?

because it doesn't know

Brought to you by the arrogant minds of the religious.

I think you are misunderstanding what he is saying ( or maybe I am lol).

I dont think hes necessarily saying that the whole universe just popped into existence when the first human because consciously aware. What he is saying is that there was stuff, energy, whatever, but it only becomes "concrete", separate "things", when observed by consciousness. So, when we look, there are trees, leaves, ground etc at our "magnification", but these are only identified because of the way our mind works. it separates, it identifies, it differentiates. Whereas, all there really is is "stuff". if you increase magnification , for example, then there will just be bunches of atoms, you wouldnt be able to see where the trees end and the ground begins, necessarily. increase magnification again, and you just get bunches of quarks or whatever. There are no separate objects, its just that we perceive reality as such. We perceive patterns.

Will science ever be able to say what "stuff" is? I dont think so, because it only ever describes things in terms of something else. If we get right down to the base "stuff", then there will be no way to say what it is.

Sometimes there is a fine line between profound and silly, I don't think it's close in this thread though.

You implied that these drugs were banned because government were in conspiracy with big pharmaceutical companies. Nowhere in your post did you account for negative side-effects from these drugs. Indeed you actually have a history in this thread of using words like "amazing" to describe them.

When you make loaded arguments that rely on affect more than reason please don't bother claiming "foul play" simply because people can't be bothered to pretend you argue from a blank slate, because you don't.

So, please drop the dishonesty or stop blabbering.

We all may be sharing in a common dream, in which case there’s no “stuff” out there or even an “out there.” The only reason to postulate “stuff out there” is to explain “common experience in here.” But we can just as well explain the latter by postulating a common mind.

How does a 'common mind' theory account for evolution? including the 5 mass extinctions (that we know of so far) that have occurred in less than a quarter of the time that earth has been around?

--Your imagination--
REconnects with it's counterpart,
(Creative) Spirit.

"God" is to The Universe
as
Mind is to Mental

(Hermetic axiom--All is Mind, the Universe is Mental)

can you find "mind" anywhere ( common or otherwise)? I cant.
There is no "out there" because there is no "in here"

Let me take a shot at this thread...

First of all, there are scientific theories that allow for the kind of thing that we are talking about. I don't have any links on hand, but I have seen scientific speculation represented on these kinds of theories (on wikipedia, I think).

Edit: actually, I found a few that are related. I still can't find the exact site I came across that lists current scientific theories that state that 'our consciousness manifested the universe,' but I will find it, dammit:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-lar..._b_645069.html

http://www.spiritscienceandmetaphysi...reate-reality/

http://crestroyertheory.com/


If we imagine that God can see the future, and ALL POSSIBLE futures, then we can imagine that God saw us before we saw Him. God saw and heard us before we even existed. God decided that we were worth creating, or He loved us, or whatever the case may be- He goes ahead and manifests our universe and thereby creates us.

Put in another way, when the first human being in history called out to God in prayer (from a possible future), God heard it. Creation is just a response to that prayer.

Under such a scenario, you might be able to claim that consciousness came first*.

Edit edit: However, I think what Erf is talking about is a form of quantum mysticism. The universe depends on an observer. Only observer-dependent universes exist. That kind of thing.

Dogg, within your interpretation system, perhaps look at:

Know ye not, that ye are gods? (Ps 82:6, John 10:34)

You understand that you were created by God,
you understand that you are a son of God,
you understand how like begets like,
how cats beget cats and hawks beget hawks,

yet you cannot understand how God begets gods???

Consciousness doesn't exist. Only reality does. What is reality? All qualia that are present right now. Fingers hitting the keyboard, inhale, exhale, sound of a car passing by, etc. That's reality/God.

Unless, of course, consciousness is a part of reality.

By mind, I mean awareness or consciousness. Conventionally, I’m aware of a tree and you’re aware of a tree, ergo, there’s a tree out there causing a common or shared experience. What I’m saying is that we can just as well get there, a common or shared experience, by postulating a common or shared awareness. In other words, there’s no my awareness and your awareness; awareness is communal. Or put another way:

“I feel the same truth how often in my trivial conversation with my neighbors, that somewhat higher in each of us overlooks this by-play, and Jove nods to Jove from behind each of us.” -Emerson

That, I think, is what the o.p. is hinting at. But saying, “I am Jove,” is not to say that my body, brain and all the experiences that filter through such exhausts Jove. What it is saying is that you are not all that; you are that which is experiencing or aware of all that, and that which is aware of all that cannot be divided and severed from it.

Anyway, my point with all that is to show that nothing really changes in regard to what we’re experiencing, (and the math still works!). What does change is how we’re looking at it: In lieu of the Laws of Physics playing the causal role, it’s the Laws of Mind. For example, it’s not due to physical properties of objects that two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time; it’s due to the inability to be aware of two objects occupying the same space at the same time. Likewise, it’s not due to some physical constraints in the world out there whereby objects can’t exceed the speed of light; it’s due to a mental constraint whereby visual awareness can’t completely collapse into the temporal awareness. In other words, c is a mental constant, not a velocity. Likewise, gravity can be accounted for in a similar manner, although it’s a bit more complicated. But again, my point is that the world appears the same regardless of which theory we adhere to.

As you alluded to earlier, words don’t quite suffice. I can think of an “in here” without an “out there,” in the way I can think of “one” without “another.” But I get what you’re saying. I just don’t know how to avoid invoking some sense polarity when I’m contrasting one view with the other.

To live

"Right now" by implication sets your qualia in contrast to "not right now" and present to "not present", and are fairly poor choices of words given what you are trying to argue.

Surely if "only qualia", then trying to indicate time and space is irrelevant; there is only phenomena.

This is what The Faceless has to say on this matter:

I consummate this realm through the vision I possess
I rise above consecrated imposition
The pious flame
A flame extinguished from the mind
I will create a new reality
No creator in the heavens above (I am the lightning)
Rest your weary mind
No demons in the furnace below (I am the frenzy)
I have realized I am God
I will descend to the depths of man
Proclaim to the void
Emptying my cup
The starved, weary, thirsting
From God's barren grave within the garden of untruths
A flower takes bloom and births a new reality
No creator in the heavens above (I am the lightning)
Rest your weary mind
No demons in the furnace below (I am the frenzy)
I have realized I am God.

Btw, I think my mind exploded.

I was reading some of the Kybalion yesterday and man's "I Am God" claim, while on the right track, is discussed and shown to be half-wise. It's discussed in chapters 5-7.

to live

to live

is that what we are doing

not exactly

says the wise one

for something is a brewing

you can't even ****ing imagine

what I have in store for you

for you see

what it is that you like

well

I like it too

you believe that your sins are defying me

but you don't understand

your mind is not your mind

and your land is not your land

how can it be

did you create it

no

no you did not

so how can what you want

not be what I want

You'd be surprised how fast you get there once you decide to go there.

is Islam this is the biggest sin of them all (shirk), the disregard for montheism.

anyone with a rational brain can work out that WE(humans) are clearly not GOD.

for GOD is abrahamic religions is the creator of the universe, something beyond the capabilities of man. We are constrained to the laws of phyisics and time etc.. whereas god is not.

this is exactly what the devil/satan/shaytan/iblis in abrahamic religions conspires to decieve mankind into believing for this is a certain path to joining him in hell..