When Jesus says, “The Kingdom of Heaven is like…” and he describes something strange, it’s because he is describing an aspect of the hidden narrative. Again, reality includes both the fulfillment and the narrative.

Usually, Jesus is revealing an aspect of the narrative when he says “The Kingdom is like” or “My followers are like”.

In a way, it is right that truth is hidden. If you ask me do I want to know, I say 'sure'. Then you ask me do I really want to know? I say meh, I would prefer to sit on the couch and not have to bother. So why would I deserve entitlement to truths which even if I understood I wouldn't know what to do with.
Thoughts on the disciples being 'initiates' into mystery schools?

This is a universal failure point. It’s a managerial issue. The dishonest manager says, “Look, I have explained the situation in detail. Yet, he fails to act. There is nothing more that I can do.”

You have to kick out this dishonest manager and let the shrewd manager into the house. The shrewd manager is creative enough to get results.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...&interface=amp


I am unfamiliar with mystery schools so I can’t speak to that.

Free will negates the quality of the manager I think. But a good illustration all the same.




Who are the people of the light?

This goes back to the point of this thread. If rationality is your master, then it will not allow you to be in relationship with what I am speaking about.

I’m not speaking to the rational part of you. Not all of you serves rationality. It’s necessary to first become aware of the two sides and the inner conflict.

I don't say god doesn't exist because evil exists, I don't say god doesn't exist because human suffering exists. I say fairy tales sitting in for metaphysics and cosmology is bullshyt. I say call a myth a myth, a fable a fable, a legend a legend, metaphysics metaphysics, and cosmology cosmology.

I clearly say rationality is a servant, not a master. He who tries to throw it out even as a servant is clearly trying to smuggle in something that doesn't correspond to simple reality. This of course does not mean that reason can decipher all, but it damn sure means you don't get to suspend reason to just wish things into reality.

We don’t need to keep going back and forth on this. If you are satisfied with your “simple reality” which doesn’t include fulfillment, then you can keep associating reality with rationality.

That wasn’t enough for me which is why I went beyond. It’s a personal choice.

Once again, fulfillment is not a non-rational, irrational, or outside of rational need in any way. That is simply a claim to uphold the supernatural religion. I went way beyond any customary versions of rational reality. It just wasn't into fairy tales, rote myths of superstitious magic believing cultures, so-called supernaturalism, etc. It is your reality that is the simple one: "Jesus did it" ... where some range into the actual nature of the cosmos ... considerably more complex than the Jesus story.

Nice Strawman, fella. Nobody in this thread (that I know of) believes in "fairy tales."

#metoo

Fairy tale: a magical, legendary story.

Religions try to pin down a very vague "godhead" to something specific. When they actually have no idea what it is. Just heard Marie von Franz say that. It's self-deception, and REQUIRES the sacrificing of rationality.

And arising out of a culture and society that is superstitious, magic believing, supernaturalist, misogynist, racist, judgmental, brutal, murderous, bigoted ... comes a god of superstition, magic ... that is supernatural, misogynist, racist, judgmental, brutal, murderous, and bigoted ... It has nothing to do with the nature of the "godhead," and everything to do with the shadow of man. Jung's "Answer to Job," this projection into other, the "ultimate other," and perfect father wish fulfillment is the foundation of paternal religion.

Just because you don't know what the Godhead is doesn't preclude the possibility that some folks do know what the Godhead is.

I would assert that is nothing more irrational than denying the existence of God. If the universe is a mere accident (that is, was not made intentionally), then everything in the universe is an accident (i.e. unintentional). And unintentional rationality is an oxymoron.

Thank you for confirming my claim that nobody (that I know of) in this thread believes in fairy tales.

"metaphysics" and "supernatural" could be synonymous btw.

+1

In society-at-large, "Metaphysics" is essentially a synonym for "New Age". In the olden days (1980's) there were a spate of what were called "metaphysical bookstores." They were almost entirely books about stuff like numerology, "past lives", Tarot cards, and so on.

In Philosophy, Metaphysics is about Ontology and Cosmology.

Healing people by touching your garment is flippin magic, walking on deep water is magic, feeding multitudes with a few fish is magic, turning a human being into a pillar of salt is magic, controlling the wind is magic, changing water into wine is magic, everlasting life thru vampirism is magic, blind and paralytic healed with no medical expertise is magic ...

Miracle claims are magic claims. So every believer believes in magic.

Consider right now that you are trapped within the perspective of the religion. Just consider it. Notice that you just leapt from either "my god" or "irrational unintentional accident." That's a joke and almost cannot be taken as honest, that is, except for the profound influence of indoctrination. The idea that a quantum field is the "creator" and is in the role of "godhead" ... is a million times more rational than claims of genocidal, "chosen people," bigoted, superstitious, jealous, "you better have the right kind of sexual attraction," etc.

THE NEED FOR RATIONALITY IS HARDLY PROVIDED BY CLAIMS OF THIS OR THAT MAGIC GOD! That's absurd. Yet you leap straight from the need for rational to the superstition. I do believe that is ingenuous on your part ... not an overt deception but just a tremendous blind spot. There are many proposed rational origin explanations ... to the indoctrinated mind's surprise they are not limited to "A Magic Man did it." In fact, there are no explanations less rational than that.

I'm for a teleological, intentional, intelligent Nature that is the prime mover. That's way more rational and in evidence than proposing bukoos of gods. Personifying this force of nature into a "Being in the Sky" is a primitive formulation, a superstitious, limited comprehension explanation.

The idea that we need a rational explanation for the universe and obviously that's this god story of primitive times is just super meh. There is only one way to justify that: presupposition.

So ... agreed that we need a rational underpinning of existence if we can come up with one (even while the true believer claims we need to eschew rationality). And to fulfill this need we are going to pick one of the thousands of gods proposed by man, and call that OBJECTIVE. It would be hard to imagine anything less objective, less reliable, less in evidence as real ... and the joke of calling this objective is plain to see (if one isn't lost in the doctrine). When true believers call this objective, what they really mean is authoritarian, unchallengable, timeless, perfect, universal, etc. They mean "something I can be completely obedient to." But obedience like this isn't a virtue, as any psychologist, philosopher, social scientist, political scientist knows. No, it's a vice. It's a sacrifice of agency. And to call one's preferred invisible god "objective," while all the other religions do the same for their invisible god, is little more than a game of hide and seek with the source of existence and morality.

Jesus the "Mystic Man of divinity" like anyone else and other belief systems ... Alan Watts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avN_gQ7NC0I

Let's find out who REALLY believes in MAGIC:

The human being is alive and the sculpture isn't. The alive version is self-organizing and the sculpture isn't. To compare the two and hang your hat on this ridiculous appeal as some kind of evidence that life isn't natural, but supernatural, is a joke. This is not to say that nature itself is not self-organizing -- I think it is -- but that it isn't self-organizing into sculptures of our presidents. It's just meh to see all these stupid arse gimmicks used as some kind of slam dunk point when all they really are is being hoodwinked by manipulative apologetics.

Correct. That fact makes my point even stronger.

Nothing is "self-organizing." Must be MAGIC!!!

No joke, Mr. Magic. In your Cosmological Disneyland life would have to come from non-life, which violates the law of Biogenesis.

More MAGIC!!! Inanimate matter organizes itself! Like any good magician you're a master of deception !

Thank you letting me see your stage act for free. Will you be here all week?

"Nature" doesn't ORGANIZE itself, it DISORGANIZES itself! Ever heard of Entropy?

I'll consider your view when I see the following headline:

TORNADO RIPS THROUGH DOWNTOWN TULSA: CAUSES A BILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF IMPROVEMENTS!