I don't have much to add, just want to hear what you theists have to say about the video you'll find by clicking the link below...

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/16814

EDIT: I just put the exact same title as the guy who originally posted this on the other forum. Figured that's okay with quotes.

I think its a strawman arguement. I don't see the connection between survival instincts and assuming that survival instincts account for all evil/good in people's natural code. I have seen men sacrifice their own personal well being in tough times and people with tremendous wealth and status kill and steal.

Meh. He takes a Christian straw man argument, demolishes it (fairly enough) then holds up his own.

Edit: Looked at some of the other videos and they do the same thing. Find a Christian moron, bash him to bits, use this as evidence you are correct.

This is no different, and no more disingenuous, than when a Christian does the same thing by calling out an idiotic atheist and then acting smug when they trounce them.

Watched the first 3 minutes - the idiot isn't the theist in this picture.

I would like to point out that while intellectually nothing special (due to the guy just beating up straw men and idiots), it is pretty amusing to watch.

post a youtube link plz, im not clicken that

I have a question. The video links to a series of youtube vids which are quite interesting(why do people laugh at creationists).You guys should watch these 7 min vids they are all pretty great. In his vids there is this fairly cute kid who is like 25 and a huge creationist who is constantly made fun of. He's the guy in part 1 of the series who says that the grand canyon was made in five minutes...
Do any of you know this youtuber? what is his screename? I wanna see his pro creationist vids in their enitirety!

His screen name is VenomfangX, I believe.

Also, even as a non-creationist, I can offer the disclaimer: Don't let that guys brand of stupid make you think all creationists are equally ignorant.

Thanks. I am a "creationist" myself so I know that not all of them are the same. Although I do not believe in intelligent design. I believe in unintelligent design.

oh wow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUGJ...eature=related

Rise against, I think you would like this one.

?!

He believes that god is a ******, ldo.

Okay so here's how my simple mind looks at this.

Since most theists on this board are Christians I'll use that religion for this discussion.

I think we can all agree that Christians suggest without the morals laid out for us by God/The Bible, chaos would ensue. How would one know what's right and wrong?

So when it comes to animals (or in this case fish) them not killing each other is chalked up to survival instincts, but when humans don't kill each other it's because of the morals laid out by Christianity.

I mean, it's not like fish can store stuff that other fish can steal. So all we can really observe is them not killing each other. Humans are advanced enough that we can collect things which can be stolen.

My point is that if you get to say these fish don't kill each other because of survival instincts you don't then get to say that humans don't kill each other because of morals. Taking that one step further...being nice to each other is pretty much the same thing because we know that if we steal from someone they might get mad enough to kill us.

So I look at it like you either need to take out 'thou shall not kill' or the whole thing goes up in smoke. Because us not killing each other is a survival instinct and has nothing to do with morals.

Actually according to Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein the 10 Commandments say "Thou shalt not murder" not "Thou shalt not kill" in Hebrew.

I'm just pointing it out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

+1.


Do you mean you don't believe in "Intelligent Design," the creationist theory?

I guess now is probably as good a time as any to point out that most creationists don't.

The ID movement started because a bunch of fundamentalist Christians added up the numbers in the Bible and therefore concluded that, taken literally, the earth is only 6000 or so years old. (Of course, Biblical scholars - even Christian ones - point out many reasons why using the Bible is such a way is a really ignorant thing to do, but I'll avoid bombing the thread with all that off topic information.)

Then, they set out to prove that the Earth and even the whole universe is only 6000 years old. Bang, the intelligent design movement was born.

Plenty of Christians believe in the scientifically shown age of the Earth, evolution, etc., and would claim that, for example, evolution is just the works that God put into place to get us to evolve.

Well humans are much more complex than fish behaviorally. Lots of people in the course of recorded history have decided to kill any number of people for no good reason, which is why regardless of the merits of the argument that no single religion has a corner on the morals market, the point used to make the argument is poorly chosen.

Butcho, fish don't have the ability to reason and humans do. Its silly to compare the two. And its the reason why the video is such a crock.

If a fish kills another fish would you say it did it because it was driven by its survival instinct? If you agree then you must also agree that when a man kills another man he is driven by his survival instinct. We both know thats ridiculous because fish behavior is not a good analog to human behavior.

You're right but that still means that theists cannot claim morality has to come from God. Unless of course they can show that reasoning capabilities are impossible without God.

Not always. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Maybe he's just wanting a little dessert to top off his dinner. Or maybe he's starving and needs food to survive. But I don't attribute it to survival instincts every single time. How could you?

Most theist would claim human consciousness and human reasoning are gifts from God.

sorry i left you guys so puzzled. What I believe in is the gospel of the flying spaghetti monster. You guys should read it even if you are not a pastafarian. In it it says that the flying spaghetti monster created the universe haphazardly and poorly which is why there are so many problems and so much pain. I have yet to find a more reasonable explanation.

Also most atheist ignore the truely baffleing existence of human consciousness and reasoning.

This is a gross misunderstanding of what many theists believe. It is not that I think without the bible, or God putting morals inside us, people would be incapable of knowing what is right or wrong.

It is that there would be no right or wrong. You are left with moral relativism which when boiled down leads to basically nothingness.

You cannot say, as an atheist, that anything is right or wrong universally. You cannot claim that what Hitler did was morally wrong, you can just say that you did not like it, or that it was a social fopaux(sp?). After all there were plenty of nazis that thought what Hitler was doing was a great thing.

If we are just animals living in a sophisticated animal kingdom, then there cannot be any substantial moral law.

Morals then become relegated to a matter of taste or opinion. Just like beauty. Some one can say that a girl is beautiful and you might disagree, but that does not make that person incorrect, nor does that mean that the girl is not beautiful.

In the same manner as if I killed Joe down the street. To me it was the right thing to do. You might disagree, but that does not mean that I was incorrect, nor does it mean that killing Joe was not the right thing to do.

You can devise whatever social moral code you want, but in the end it is no different and no more right then the standards that have been created by society to decide what a beautiful girl looks like.

Why do you think that Religion is the only source of morals? You are making so many assumptions and jumping to so many conclusions that Im not sure where to start.