"Praying" a human thing? - Religion, God, and Theology

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"Praying" a human thing?

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07-02-2010 , 01:34 PM

MindOnMind

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 660

Is praying something only the humans do? Not as in praying to God, but "hoping" something happens. Because I think it's pretty common that when a person really doesn't want something to happen, he/she starts praying that it doesn't. But do you think like chimpansees etc do it too?

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07-02-2010 , 01:41 PM

Mt.FishNoob

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 12,241

I think praying is just a form of mediation and I think some other inaimals have their own way of doing so, rather than 'hope' just feeling better. Who knows though animals can't talk.

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07-02-2010 , 01:49 PM

Concerto

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,564

Isn't an ant lifting a cookie crumb "hoping" to move it somewhere?

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07-02-2010 , 01:52 PM

MindOnMind

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 660

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concerto

Isn't an ant lifting a cookie crumb "hoping" to move it somewhere?

Yes by acting on it. Not by standing there hoping that it happens.

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07-02-2010 , 01:57 PM

Mt.FishNoob

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Yes by acting on it. Not by standing there hoping that it happens.

gold

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07-02-2010 , 01:59 PM

wants

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,752

Prayer implies belief in something that is not immediately tangible. Such a belief requires mental representation. As of yet, there is no evidence to support that any species other than **** sapiens are capable of mental representation.

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07-02-2010 , 02:03 PM

wants

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,752

Quote:

Originally Posted by MindOnMind

Yes by acting on it. Not by standing there hoping that it happens.

If "standing there hoping that it happens" (i.e. with your head in the ground) is the definition of prayer, than many animals would in fact be capable of it

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07-02-2010 , 02:08 PM

Concerto

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,564

Quote:

Originally Posted by MindOnMind

Yes by acting on it. Not by standing there hoping that it happens.

Praying for something and acting so that outcome will happen are not mutually exclusive.

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07-02-2010 , 02:11 PM

Vantek

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,806

Quote:

Originally Posted by wants

AFAIK, apes pretty obviously are are.

I have no trouble imagining a chimp running from a bigger chimp going "please give up, please give up!" in his head in his primitive unarticulate manner.

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07-02-2010 , 02:19 PM

#10

Duncelanas

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Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 6,334

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concerto

Praying for something and acting so that outcome will happen are not mutually exclusive.

True, but praying and acting are 2 distinct, separate actions. An ant lifting a cookie crumb is not equivalent to praying the cookie crumb moves.

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07-02-2010 , 02:21 PM

#11

wants

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,752

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vantek

AFAIK, apes pretty obviously are are.

I would love to see evidence of this.

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Originally Posted by Vantek

I have no trouble imagining a chimp running from a bigger chimp going "please give up, please give up!" in his head in his primitive unarticulate manner.

This is not evidence of mental representation.

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07-02-2010 , 02:22 PM

#12

MindOnMind

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 660

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vantek

AFAIK, apes pretty obviously are are.

I have no trouble imagining a chimp running from a bigger chimp going "please give up, please give up!" in his head in his primitive unarticulate manner.

Yes that's what I mean. Also like if a gorilla see's blood in his son's room. He might be hoping that it isn't his son's blood. Instead of just freaking out and trying to find out if it is.

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07-02-2010 , 02:28 PM

#13

wants

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,752

Here's a really interesting article that discusses mental representation as it applies to humans and animals: http://www.scientificamerican.com/bl...l-a-2010-06-22

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07-02-2010 , 03:41 PM

#14

Vantek

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,806

Quote:

Originally Posted by MindOnMind

Yes that's what I mean. Also like if a gorilla see's blood in his son's room. He might be hoping that it isn't his son's blood. Instead of just freaking out and trying to find out if it is.

I don't know if they're that smart though.

More like, he sees someone get mangled by a lion from the distance but can't tell who it is, and hopes it isn't his son.

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07-02-2010 , 03:43 PM

#15

Vantek

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,806

Quote:

Originally Posted by wants

Here's a really interesting article that discusses mental representation as it applies to humans and animals: http://www.scientificamerican.com/bl...l-a-2010-06-22

Are you kidding me? Chimps jack off all the time!

lulz though:

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I know what you’re thinking: What did the monkeys do with the “product”? Well, they ate their own ejaculate—and in one case, a curious infant licked it off the adult’s fingers.

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This is one of the reasons, incidentally, why I find it so hard to believe that self-proclaimed asexuals who admit to masturbating to orgasm are really and truly asexual. They must be picturing something , and whatever that something is gives away their sexuality.

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07-02-2010 , 04:00 PM

#16

wants

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,752

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vantek

Are you kidding me? Chimps jack off all the time!

His argument wasn't that chimps don't masturbate, only that there is no evidence that they are able to do so without external stimulation (i.e. by being within sight, scent, or hearing of other chimps). The point was that humans are likely the only species that are able to use mental representation to achieve orgasm.

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07-02-2010 , 04:25 PM

#17

Vantek

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,806

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porn

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07-02-2010 , 05:24 PM

#18

wants

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,752

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vantek

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porn

What's your point?

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07-02-2010 , 08:16 PM

#19

Duke0424

self-banned

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,362

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vantek

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porn

What? People can have an orgasm without looking at anything so idk what you're saying

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07-13-2010 , 07:48 PM

#20

limpshove!

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 347

come on you guys, everyone knows that fish pray too

or maybe they just really *hope* for cards

AWWWW lookatit! it's totally praying! socute

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