Mature human beings are evil!

Obviously, if one were able to record every act, thought and deed of almost any mature human being for one week and scrutinize this record, what would be the verdict? [ Sorry, not fit for the "kingdom of righteousness"! ]

Congratulations OP. (I mean that sincerely)

If what the OP claims is true until physical death, then this is considered to be really true according to some Messianic believers and "Christians" ( notably, Calvinists ): i.e., the individual himself/herself is accountable for the sins committed and the natural result is death ( not merely physical death ).

the other thing that bothers me is how so many Christians say certain events "had to happen that way". No, they didn't. God MAKES the rules! He did not "need" his wrath appeased, or a symbol of atonement, or anything else. He's God. He doesn't need anything. My first clue that Christians are rationalizing, is when they start theorizing about what HAD to happen, as if they know the mind of God.

From a most-likely scenario point of view... crucifixions were common during that time. If Jesus did actually exist, he was most likely crucified as a radical by the Romans, as many others were. There is really nothing unique about this event, in and of itself.

He had a small but devoted cult-like following, who ascribed cosmic significance to his crucifixion by adding the resurrection story and the idea that his suffering was to fulfill a prophecy, take the sins of the world on his own shoulders, and open the gates of heaven to humans. They added all this in when writing the gospels years later.

Of course, this storyline also encourages people to be faithful. As in "look what Jesus did for YOU." What kind of ingrate would not want to pay back that sort of suffering and sacrifice? If you believe the story of his suffering and death, you almost have no choice but to remain faithful to him - he went through torture just so a nobody like yourself would have a chance to reach heaven.

Though it isn't addressed specifically in the Bible, there is reason to believe that children, especially babies, may not need salvation should they die.

If that's the case then we should all kill out babies , GOD FORBID they become atheists and end up in hell... Let's do them a favor... So maybe it's a blessing when children die young , GOD takes them away so that they end up in heaven...

great!

Believers operate on more than one doctrine. The Bible instructs not to kill. If you're going to accept this one biblical doctrine, then you can't reject all others. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Stars died so I can "sin." That's it.

so whats wrong with sacrificing your own eternal life in order to ensure millions of babies see heaven?

It's ok for GOD to kill his son, but not ok for people to kill their own children to save them?

So what that the bible instructs not to kill, bible is full of stories of justified killings... Killing children to save them from hell seems like a pretty good justification, no? 60 years of life and eternal torture in hell or few days of life and everlasting life and happiness... the choice is pretty simple..

Sigh. Pick up a bible. None of this makes much sense.

What??? You should pick up the bible ..

example of a justified killing according to GOD...

And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
(2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

clearly killing children for some reasons is ok, so why not the most important reason of all, eternal happiness with JESUS himself...

You take so much out of context. You miss the big idea. You twist biblical truths until they lead to something unbiblical.

Sinners killed Jesus. I killed Jesus. You killed Jesus.

These are God ordained. We are not God.

This is an open handed doctrine. My view leans towards children being saved, but I am not sure. It very well could be that God knows which children would grow up to be His children. It could be that killing a child is taking away their chance to come to Christ. I don't know. But it's not terribly important. On a scale of 1-10 of importance, this is <1 IMO.

You miss how the Bible emphasizes importance. How often are children's/infants' eternal consequences spoken of in scripture? Not much. How much is murder spoken of? Often. I'll let you do the math from there.

No i don't take it out of context, it is you guys who love to use this excuse when pointed out ridiculousness of the bible.

No dude, I have nothing to do with Jesus' death...


Oh so only GOD can act like a dick and get away with it and still be worshiped and called ALL LOVING and a great father... cool story bro...

So you are saying that getting to heaven is not important?

So he creates people of whom he knows in advance which will go to heaven and which will go to hell.. That is a pretty evil concept to even create someone who you know will boil for eternity.. CREEEEEEPPPYYYY concept..

Im in the camp that thinks it would be morally right to give up my salvation and save as many humans as possible if children go right to heaven.

But putting that aside. If babies/children do go to heaven what are they like when they get up there? What i mean is that each of us is the adult we are based on the experiences of growing up and living this life. If i did die as a baby i dont think i would be me. Would i? Or would i be someone else?

You should stick to debating whether the Bible is valid. Because when you try to debate doctrine you're flailing your arms trying to fly.

The Bible does not speak to this. Reasonable questions please.

It was an honest question that i have often wondered. I dont think i would be me in heaven if i was killed as a child. It seems like children and babies especially would be a lost bunch in heaven.

Seems like a manageable situation for God. I trust Him.

The Hebrew word translated "little children" there is "naar" and is translated
"young man," or "young men" 70 other places. But, I'm sure that won't
keep gskowal from passing this story on as is in the future, to try and
further his delusions.

Sure. How does he manage it though.

Does he implant false memories in them. Does he have a baby grow out room with simulated experiences in some kind of holodeck. Does he just let them grow in a perfect heaven without the experience of sin (which means i wouldn't be me). If he does give them the experience of sin does this mean there is sin in heaven.

Look i know there are no answers. Just something i have thought about.

Sure I have heard this excuse many times before, CHANGE **** around.. ...I could care less if these were 6 year olds 20 year olds or even adults at the age of 50... KILLING PEOPLE BECAUSE they made fun of someone is justified according to your GOD? Have fun worshiping and evil GOD..

Christian Fundamentalist train of thought is so fascinating. Somehow a story of 40 kids getting mauled to death by bears for calling someone a baldy is just fine because it wasn't 40 kids, it was 40 youths.

And they wonder why their evangelical efforts are met with laughs. Acting like arrogant douchebags seems to help out too.

My only conclusion is that the recent "Christians" posting on this forum or just trolls since its so easy to pretend to be a ******ed/arrogant Christian fundamentalist.

This sounds awesome. Even without any shred of proof, I'm willing to sign up for this belief system. Of course, I want to be in a position of power in this system so I can tell others how awful they are as human beings and, god willing, take advantage of them because of their enormous (artificial) guilt.

My real answer to “Why did Jesus have to die for you?” is that he didn't. Up to this point in my life, no one else has done so either. End of story. He made decisions that led to his death. Good for him.

Once again Atheists don't understand that sinners don't deserve forgiveness, it's a gift by God's grace.