Are "Interventions" to rescue Christians justified? - Religion, God, and Theology

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Are "Interventions" to rescue Christians justified?

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03-27-2010 , 10:36 PM

VP$IP

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Are "Interventions" to rescue men, women, and children Christians from a lifetime of superstition, guilt, fear, financial exploitation, and possible sexual abuse justified?

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03-27-2010 , 10:42 PM

RJT

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,520

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Originally Posted by VP$IP

Are "Interventions" to rescue men, women, and children Christians from a lifetime of superstition, guilt, fear, financial exploitation, and possible sexual abuse justified?

Lestat,

You were asking me what?

RJT

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03-27-2010 , 10:47 PM

VP$IP

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Grape mimes think alike.

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03-28-2010 , 11:10 PM

always_sunni_

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,262

Barrett > Intervention.

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03-28-2010 , 11:39 PM

Jerok

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,592

Quote:

Originally Posted by VP$IP

Are "Interventions" to rescue men, women, and children Christians from a lifetime of superstition, guilt, fear, financial exploitation, and possible sexual abuse justified?

Absolutely they are - I agree with helping us get past superstition (CC 2111), undeserved guilt, irrational fear, financial exploitation, and possible sexual abuse.

If you are implying that Christians as opposed to other groups are guilty of these, please show how.

Also, I assume your speaking of Catholics with the sexual abuse... could you provide statistics showing Catholic priests are more likely to abuse than other adult men? Thanks.

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03-28-2010 , 11:43 PM

rizeagainst

banned

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,179

Quote:

Originally Posted by VP$IP

Are "Interventions" to rescue men, women, and children Christians from a lifetime of superstition, guilt, fear, financial exploitation, and possible sexual abuse justified?

They need to rescue themselves.

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03-29-2010 , 01:22 AM

always_sunni_

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,262

Quote:

Originally Posted by VP$IP

Are "Interventions" to rescue men, women, and children Christians from a lifetime of superstition, guilt, fear, financial exploitation, and possible sexual abuse justified?

I think it's a stretch to link financial exploitation and sexual abuse directly with Christianity. Maybe the other 3.

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03-29-2010 , 01:47 AM

VP$IP

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Are "Interventions" to rescue men, women, and children Christians from a lifetime of superstition, guilt, fear, financial exploitation, and possible sexual abuse justified?

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Originally Posted by always_sunni_

I think it's a stretch to link financial exploitation and sexual abuse directly with Christianity. Maybe the other 3.

I doubt that we could ever get Christians to reveal how much money they have donated, but it adds up quickly. The major chunk of it provides a comfy lifestyle for "clergymen" in their various forms.

Once you realize that "clergymen" have absolutely no special god-given powers or authority, you can begin to recognize the fraud and abuse. But not until then.

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03-29-2010 , 02:04 AM

Deorum

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Originally Posted by always_sunni_

Barrett > Intervention.

Rofl, this is one of the biggest disagreements my roommate and I have, and he is a Christian :P (I am in the Barrett camp, though for some reason I can never seem to get 1 shot kills with the intervention and he never seems to get them with the barrett - it is cool how the intervention auto scopes tho).

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03-29-2010 , 05:12 PM

#10

kurto

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I don't think its possible to answer your question in the general sense (except with respect to sexual abuse).

What if, believing in SUPERRELIGION cost you x dollars per year and a time commitment of Y dollars. But believing in SUPERRELIGION, despite being wrong, improved believers life in measureable ways (they're happier, feel they have a sense of purpose, do good acts, provides them a framework for living, etc.)

Unless you can answer if the "superstition, guilt, fear, financial exploitation" are more harmful then what believers gain... we have no answer.

Please note- I could replace religion with dating above and practically change nothing else.

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Are "Interventions" to rescue men and women in relationships from a lifetime of superstition, guilt, fear, financial exploitation, and possible sexual abuse justified?

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03-29-2010 , 07:06 PM

#11

VP$IP

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That is the last stand of Christians. The argument that Christianity promotes good behavior.

Don't kill people.
Don't take people's stuff. (Actually don't even think about it)
Don't lie about people.
Kids honor your parents.
Wives submit to your husbands.
Give to Caesar what is Caesar's. (currently interpreted as "mucho")

So it comes down to:
Continue to except a collection of ancient superstitions in exchange for social order. Otherwise there will be rampant debauchery, short-stacking, and chip-dumping.

That is their best argument now. The other stuff (72 virgins for Christians) is generally only believed by those who have had it drummed into them from birth.

Last edited by VP$IP; 03-29-2010 at 07:16 PM. Reason: Would we be allowed to pick our own 72 virgins?

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03-29-2010 , 09:26 PM

#12

mekanical

adept

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 784

If christian beliefs give people a happier and more fulfilled life, then I support it for those people. The present society has been moving away from religious thought for many years now, so it seems the first statement is not true for the majority of people. I believe this is just another step in the evolution of our species, and within 200 years less than 10% of the population will actually believe in god.

Thus I think intervention is pointless, except in the case of children who are being drown with strict and intolerant religious views to the extent that it hinders their education.

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03-29-2010 , 11:58 PM

#13

Douper

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 410

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Originally Posted by mekanical

within 200 years less than 10% of the population will actually believe in god.

sad, but probably true.

I expect less than 50% will believe within 50 years. The internet has changed so much, religion stands no chance against it.

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03-30-2010 , 01:03 AM

#14

VP$IP

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Originally Posted by Douper

sad, but probably true.

I expect less than 50% will believe within 50 years. The internet has changed so much, religion stands no chance against it.

Religion stands no chance against the truth.

It has always relied on forced conscription of children, and colonization for its biggest gains.

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03-30-2010 , 01:36 AM

#15

Douper

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 410

Quote:

Originally Posted by VP$IP

Religion stands no chance against the truth.

It has always relied on forced conscription of children, and colonization for its biggest gains.

Exactly, the internet only multiplies the propagation of information, thus giving those in religiously isolated communities access to the truth.

My only concern is, if people like those in Texas on the Schoolboard get their way more often, we'll be back in the dark ages, this time with nukes.

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04-01-2010 , 01:02 PM

#16

Texas Chuck

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Originally Posted by VP$IP

It has always relied on forced conscription of children, and colonization for its biggest gains.

Athiesm has always depended on naive college students being maniplulated by the intellectual elite. Scientology by the cult of celebrity and the branch davidians by the lure of a magnetic leader etc etc etc.

not sure how this is relevant to anything.

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04-01-2010 , 01:12 PM

#17

VP$IP

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College is a logical arena for opening someone's mind to reality instead of superstition. Until then they are often under the relentless brainwashing of The Church.

Stand up for Jesus!

Naive is an appropriate term in many cases however.

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04-01-2010 , 01:22 PM

#18

Texas Chuck

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VPIP,

You are kidding yourself if you think only traditional organized religions brainwash. You think the liberal professors dont have their own agenda to push on kids who have never learned to think for themselves? Give me a break. Then you say even if so this is fine because it is "reality". What makes your reality more real than anyone elses?

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04-01-2010 , 01:48 PM

#19

Jerok

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,592

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Originally Posted by VP$IP

The first universities were created under the Catholic church, encouraged open debate, logical thinking etc. Why would they do this if it went against their so obv brainwazhingz???

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04-01-2010 , 01:55 PM

#20

VP$IP

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Originally Posted by Jerok

The first universities were created under the Catholic church, encouraged open debate, logical thinking etc. Why would they do this if it went against their so obv brainwazhingz???

Things Have Changed

You can't win with a losing hand.

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04-01-2010 , 05:13 PM

#21

Douper

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 410

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Chuck

Then you say even if so this is fine because it is "reality". What makes your reality more real than anyone elses?

We found another Pyrrhonian

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04-01-2010 , 07:25 PM

#22

loK2thabrain

Tiger > Jack

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23,203

Quote:

Originally Posted by always_sunni_

Barrett > Intervention.

this man speaks the truth.

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04-01-2010 , 07:34 PM

#23

loK2thabrain

Tiger > Jack

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23,203

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Chuck

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Originally Posted by VP$IP

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Originally Posted by Texas Chuck

who's more impressionable, in your opinion, a child that easily believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and pretty much anything else you tell them, or an 18-25 young adult?

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04-01-2010 , 07:38 PM

#24

VP$IP

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Originally Posted by Butcho22

this man speaks the truth.

And now I know too.

(new at this)

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