Without fail, whenever I've heard someone quote this line (which is, of course, not in the Bible), they are nearly always a shockingly uninformed and ignorant Christian. Additionally, it is very often the only "quote" they can actually muster from the Bible. It's also invoked quite often by Christians when they want to justify restricting assistance to the poor.

Along with the Prosperity Gospel, this is one of the most damaging mindsets to ever percolate Christianity.

Any believer in an omniscient, benevolent god is forced to deal with the fact that the world is incredibly unfair. There are a couple ways they get around it. One of them is the whole "god works in mysterous ways", which implies there is some explanation they just have no idea what it is. "God helps those who help themselves" is another because it assigns blame to the poor people that it is their fault they are poor because if they helped themselves then god would help them too.

Weirdly "I work in mysterious ways" never seems to go down well with my boss. Once again, it's one rule for omnipotent deities and another for Joe Public.

And strangely "God helps those who help themselves" means that one cannot tell the difference between various people's situations as they are and as they would be if God actually existed.

Once again, it's one rule for theistic sayings to be propogated in society and another for secular aphorisms. I shall write a sternly worded letter to a popular British magazine.

So it's an inexact paraphrase. It shows their awareness of God.

Deut. 15:10 is more exact:

"You shall surely give to him, and your heart shall not be grieved when you give unto him: because for this thing the LORD your God shall bless you in all your works, and in all that you put your hand unto." King James 2000 Bible (©2003)

This is not a Biblical quote. It has secular origins although it does refer to God obviously. However, the usage given here is not the one I have seen frequently. I have seen it used frequently as a call for personal action, not an instruction against charity.

I've seen it frequently used as an injunction against assistance to the poor. Look up rep Joe Barton for a recent example.

I did not say you did not. I simply said that is not how I have seen it used.

Joe Barton is a nut case imo. I did not know about the charity stuff but he covered himself in stupid during the BP oil fiasco.

It's more than an inexact paraphrase. It's lost the entire meaning of the passage you posted. It often engenders contempt for the poor as it can be interpreted to mean the poor obviously just aren't trying or believing enough, otherwise god would be helping them.

I don't think that everyone who uses this phrase is necessarily thinking this way. It is primarily those beholden to the prosperity gospel Wong and have raised up greed, avarice and gluttony as virtues.

One thing that has been consistent, however, with people who use this phrase, is that they are very uninformed Christians.

And for those whom you've seen use it as a call to personal action, what is their response when such personal action has been taken and the actioners still enjoy no reprieve from their situation?

I agree with RLK. It's a phrase and good people or bad people could use it.

You're the one attaching the negativity to it.

I think a lot of people overlook that God tells people in the bible not to be idle/lazy.

I had a Christian lady once tell me "God blesses the work of our hands" and she worked for a living.

You've got to realize your context on here Complete Degen. You're posting in a poker forum. It's going to be peopled by more than its' fair share of degenerates on here. Have you checked out the number of lascivious avatars on here. More than a few people on here let lust direct or influence their thinking while other people might be letting the love of money direct their's and their could be other evil motives.

A person's mental attitude determines what meaning a person attachs to a phrase.

I do not know. Whenever I have responded to it I feel I have been rewarded. Sort of like the saying "The harder I work, the luckier I get."

I do not typically use them, but neither saying promises complete success. Only that hard work is often rewarded.

I was so angry I put my foot through my Bible, and sent Archibishop Rowan Williams the bill!

LOL, win.

LOL, and how do you remain such a shining example of noble purity in this den of iniquity Splendour? Are your horse's legs so enormously long that they elevate you from all the muck?

Did I claim to be?

Are the avatars and the avatar names on here making a personal statement or not?

Did I or did I not see someone on poker tv chortling over being a degenerate?

Do people or do people not post about the Rhino Room, etc. on 2+2? Do they go to the Rhino Room for a cup of tea?

Why are people projecting those avatar images if they aren't true?

Is it true or is it all just fantasizing....If it's fantasizing then shame on you for implying that theists are the more delusional ones.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Do you find many avatars on RGT to be objectionable? If you find the avatars elsewhere on 2+2 to be offensive, why are you viewing those sub forums?

For the record, I do believe this is a quote from Ben Franklin (Who was, ironically, an agnostic)

I think I acknowledged this in my previous post. It's primarily those who have bastardized the prosperity gospel who have the type of mentality that I'm criticizing.

I'm not attaching anything to it. I'm pointing out the misuse by others.

I don't think anyone should be lazy either. That has nothing to do with God.

That hard work results in beneficial outcomes more often than no work is a statistical fact, easily demonstrable. I think everyone should strive to accomplish what they are capable. I haven't seen anything to suggest that God provides additional "help" to those already helping themselves.

And, of course, there are countless people who try sincerely and earnestly to help themselves, but fail and receive no divine help.

Actually I tune most avatars out. But I'm a longtime poster so it's not like I haven't noticed certain predominant themes among them. I think the recent hacking scandal has toned them down though.

a/s/l?

I just have to laugh at this s***. All day long I see people like you pass by the beggar or con-artist on the street asking for a dollar or a cigarrete.

As a christian, I don't turn down any requests, ever, though I clearly want to sometimes. I feel like they wait for the cross about the neck.

But you re-vote for Obama and argue vehemently against the "christian republicans" and that is enough. You did your good deed for the day.

Damn. You guys will never understand.

Can I have everything you own?