Entirely possible.

be⋅lieve
   
–verb (used without object)
1. to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so: Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully.
–verb (used with object)
2. to have confidence or faith in the truth of (a positive assertion, story, etc.); give credence to.
3. to have confidence in the assertions of (a person).
4. to have a conviction that (a person or thing) is, has been, or will be engaged in a given action or involved in a given situation: The fugitive is believed to be headed for the Mexican border.
5. to suppose or assume; understand (usually fol. by a noun clause): I believe that he has left town.
—Verb phrase
6. believe in,
a. to be persuaded of the truth or existence of: to believe in Zoroastrianism; to believe in ghosts.
b. to have faith in the reliability, honesty, benevolence, etc., of: I can help only if you believe in me.
—Idiom
7. make believe. make (def. 46).

I've underlined the parts I feel are most relevant to the topic. So what do you mean when you say "believe"?

There's little point using big swinging examples like this. The story is highly implausible, so no matter how well-known the journalist or how credible the paper, I'll need to 'see more' - I'll need to see Joe Biden talking about it on the news, and the fact that I can expect to renders your example redundant. I can suspend judgement pending further information. In fact, and here's the nub of it, IMO, I can suspend judgement precisely (and only) because I "can't" believe one way or another firmly - why not? What's stopping me? Why, if you're right, does anyone ever seek proof of anything?

Actually, I don't think you CAN change at this point in your life for the same reason I don't think I'm mentally capable of rape or murder right now. I might physically have the ability to pull something like that off, but my personality (who I am) won't let me. It's not a free will decision available to me at this point in my life. Similarly, you cannot choose to change your religious beliefs.

Wait, so because I happen to not agree with your OPINION on something, I'M the one who has a problem and needs to take elementary classes on reading and I'M the one who has to fix MY pride and I'M the one who isn't as smart anymore and I'M the one who doesn't understand correctly and it's MY problem???

Sorry, but you really are a condescending prick.

Read all the stuff you wrote again and tell me (with a straight face) that you wouldn't hate yourself if you were someone else.

Biblically believe means to accept the knowledge or information that has been presented to you as truth. As reliable, as trustable.

So if someone says to believe God, it means you believe what God says or Trust what He says or trust what He says He will do...

Trusting is synonymous with believing biblically.

To trust someone is to believe someone/something.

Believing biblically has two sides; it has a positive side and a negative side.

Fear is believing, but it is believing in reverse, it is not trusting, it is negative believing.

I could probably teach for hours on this subject and I would, but for some reason unknown to me no one believes that they decide what they believe. It has to be because there is a communication problem.

So here is what I will do. I will spend some very good amount of time putting together what believing is, how it works, and show you how all people believe and how they all have freewill to believe, I will even show you how believing comes naturally many times and seems as though you did not make a choice. This can happen and does quite often? People readily and easily believe some things easier than other things.

I will be delving into a basic psychology of the mind in order to do this. Also the definitions I will be using come from the bible and how the bible uses these words.
That may be one of the reasons we are having issues. The world and secular definitions sometimes are not in harmony with biblically definitions. SO I will try and explain that also.



Pletho

Our House, Honestly do you think that you have ALWAYS been the most respectful and courteous and loving person on this forum to me? Have you never had condescending thoughts towards me as if you know that you are right?

I honestly do not feel that I am anymore of any of that than anyone else on this forum. I am just not afraid to speak my mind.

Obviously we are using words, which can have greater impact on a person, so you not knowing me personally or anyone else on here either and vice versa makes for us all to seem like pricks at times.

I have made a very simple example of what I mean by believing that is very easy to understand. In the example a person can decide to believe what the jounalist wrote is true or they can decide to believe it is not true.

Yes, I believe they can have a thought like "I need more info before I make my freewill decision on what I believe". That is true, but that is not what I am talking about. So if they get more info they still will mentally make a decision on what they believe. I guess they could just decide not to decide and say I am not sure. That is also a possibility and that is understood by me but I again I am not talking about that.

Believing has many variables and there are many factors involved. I am simply laying a foundational general statement that does not apply to all situations but generally applies to most situations.

I do apologize to you if you think I was being condecending and saying that you personally are stupid, I give you and everyone else here much more respect and credit than you actually think I do.

That is why I am amazed sometimes when you all do not understand me. It honestly has to boil down to a communication problem and a defintion problem of certain words.

Pletho

So belief in the sense of 'having faith in' something - again, this translates into a resolution to behave in a manner consistent with belief in something. What about the prior necessity of belief in a god to begin with?

OK. Shoot.

If belief was a choice, why would atheists who live essentially "decent" lives from a Christian perspective not simply just choose to believe in Jesus? I mean, eternal life in heaven sounds a lot better than oblivion, doesn't it?

The whole concept just seems ridiculous. I don't see how a person's beliefs are anything more than the result of their brain unconsciously processing the sum total of information that has passed into it. Sure, you can choose to some extent what information passes in, but you can't consciously control how your brain processes that information. If you take the example Pletho gives about an implausible newspaper story about Obama, obviously upon reading it a belief would form in your head, probably something like "well, that doesn't seem right..", but the belief would be entirely based on your preconceived notions about how plausible the story is. There is no way to simply decide to believe it despite the memory structures in your brain telling you the complete opposite.

Or at least, it is inconceivable to me to see how I could choose to ignore preconceptions and just flick a switch in my head. If other people can actually do this, apparently their minds work very differently to my own.

Try harder. In fact, forget trying all together. Just DO IT. Right now. Believe it. Flip the switch.



Yer not trying to tell me you...cant, are you?

Convenient. I mean, I can sprout wings and fly. I just dont feel like it right now.

This is just silly. I don't believe in the Bible. So, how do we reconcile RoundGuy's definition of belief, to Pletho's definition of belief?

Don't hold your breath. Pletho promises to explain himself, in detail, in every thread.

But he never seems to find the time....

If by "respectful and courteous and loving" you mean "agree with my belief system", then no. Otherwise, I have not ridden you personally at all. Well, I have, but only after you've acted like a total douche and belittled everyone in the forum (including me) with insults.

Sure, but I was under the assumption that only Catholic members of cloth were able to verbally condemn people for thought crimes.

Okay, one VERY IMPORTANT thing to take away from this conversation is that attacking a belief system that someone (you or any number of people) happens to adhere to is completely different from attacking a single person.

If your belief system thinks there is a problem with gays, then your belief system sucks. If you personally think there is a problem with gays (on your OWN merit), then YOU suck. See the difference?

These two posts say it all.

I guess that's one explanation. Another would be that you're just talking out of your ass and making no rational, logical sense.

You're not preaching to the sheep, here. We don't believe the Bible is the word of god. Quit assuming we do.

Well, thats you problem unfortunately. You are wrong again like usual. No problem I am getting used to it. Its hard to get right answers or comments out of someone who has no bases for truth. I wouln't expect a blind man to tell me how beautiful a painting is, so I shouldn't expect anything right to come out of your mouth.

Actually I sharing to goats not sheep. Or rocks? Either way neither are teachable.
Since you do not believe in the word of God or God then you should actually find something you do believe in to talk about, you seem to be wasting alot of time talking about something you do not believe in? HMMM? That's not very intelligent if you ask me, you are intelligent aren't you?

Pletho

Ignore them. Still waiting here. Six pages and counting.

How in the hell could All-In Flynn be debating Pletho?

With great difficulty, and a fair amount of patience.

wauw, pletho, u really are an arrogant, narcissistic, delusional douche. HAD to be SAID!

Good Day Sir! lalallalallalalalallla

less patience than most with this guy... Flynn, gl with whatever you want to learn about Steve/Pletho. Personally, I will ignore proper discourse and reduce his arguments down to "I chose the blue pill!"

amirite?

Well, even if i am wrong, I choo choo choose to be right, so suck it.

What possible reason would you have for thinking that I do not believe in God?

Oh wait, because I don't believe the Bible, right?

I'm quite certain that my intelligence is not the one to question here....

I believe what you have is a false dichotomy.

When I read something in the newspaper, I can:
1. believe it is true
2. believe it is false
3. not 1 or 2

I believe we may also be equivocating. On the one hand we are using "believe" as above -- assigning a truth value to a statement. On the other hand, I believe a generally accepted meaning of "believe" is more akin to a gut feeling.

Think about poker. You may weigh a list of criteria and the results may point toward a fold. So 9 times out of 10 you decide to fold. But every once in a while in a similar situation you call because you think he is bluffing. Maybe you can examine the hand carefully and decide why you think he is bluffing (and maybe that would just be rationalizing). Or maybe you can't figure it out. What you know for sure is, there is a little voice inside your head saying "CALL CALL CALL." We might call that a gut reaction.

Now we talk about god again. When you ask me about believing in god, I get no gut reaction.

When other people say they believe in god, I guess I assume that means: thinking, reasoning, and/or rationalizing aside, they have that same "he's bluffing!" gut feeling; a little voice in their head saying "I love and fear God, who obviously exists, praise him... in heaven... heavenly father, etc." or something similar.

So if you ask me, the typical god evidence is not extraordinary enough to justify the extraordinary claims made of most gods. In deciding to weigh the evidence logically like that, did I just choose not to believe in god? I don't think so, but maybe you think otherwise.

And if you ask me, the burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim. So I would say that I lack a belief in the existence of any supernatural gods that others have claimed exists. Did I just choose to not believe in god when I declared that I believe (and "believe") that the burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim? Again, I don't think so.

I think it is correct to say that I therefore do not believe in god. But I don't have to "believe" that. You can read my description of my thoughts and feelings about the subject, and you can conclude that I, Airship-whatever-my-stupid-nick-is, doesn't believe in god. Did you just choose for me? I don't think so... but the thought process, the decision tree, that you would follow to determine if I believe in god or not would be the same one that I would follow to make the determination.

By the way, I think there is a lot of room for debate on this issue. And I would love to hear what some linguistics people have to say about it.

I conclude with an analogy.

You find yourself faced with two doors. On one door hangs a sign that reads "I believe in god." On the other door hangs a sign that reads "I do not believe in god." Some time passes, and then you walk through the door of your choice.

I think the pro-choice side of the argument (what an ironic pun!) ITT is claiming that the act of choosing to open the door is, in and of itself, the act of choosing to believe what is written on that door.

Whereas, I think the other side (which I believe is correct [at the moment]) is probably claiming that while "some time passes," you wondered which door to open, then you figured it out through self-examination. Thus, you discovered that you did or did not believe in gods, and only then did you choose to open the door which represented your belief (or lack thereof).

So you do believe in God? What god do you believe in? The Poker god? I am curious to know. I think you are probably intelligent but intelligence has nothing really to do with believing. A dummy can believe. A ******ed person can believe.
All people can believe except maybe some rare cases, of which I am sure God has those covered.

If you know so much then you tell me and explain to me about believing and HOW it works. Explain to me HOW fear works, what it is? I honestly would like to know what you believe about this subject?

Pletho

Typo?

Sorry you are not included in the conversation. Maybe if you had something of real substance to say you could join in. Tell me what is believing? HOW does it work? Can you explain the ends and out of believing using simple everyday examples of life situations.

If a person does not choose to believe then HOW does that person believe? Is it my osmosis, is it pre-determined that you will believe this and I will believe that? Is it possible to have two people look at art work and say I believe it is crap and the other say I believe it is a masterpiece? Honestly how simple can this be?

You all think I am a joke and have no clue. But yet you all are the ones you cannot grasp a single simple concept. So I am left wondering. Hmmm?

I like your nice big word narcissistic, I guess because you use that word I am supposed to believe you are intelligent. Anybody can pick up a dictionary and look up words and use them in conversation to make themselves feel and look smarter to others. I choose to use simple plain everyday down to earth english, if I want to say a person is on a ego trip, I would say that person is on a ego trip not that they are narcissistic. That way all people can plainly understand, because I can gaurantee you tht not all people use your word that makes you feel important/smart to use.

Yes I am being a smart--- to you, because you have no reason to stick your nose into the conversation unless you have something to add to the conversation. If you do then please enlighten us. I like to be straight foreard and not beat around the bush and play games. If you want to dish out accusations and comments that are antagonistic I am sure I can hang with you. So play on.....

Pletho

No Typo. Fear is a type of believing, it is believing in reverse. It is negative believing. As I said before believing has many variables.

You can believe in God.
You can believe God.
You can believe there is no God.
You can not believe God.
You can believe that your girfriend loves you and would never leave you.

You can believe that your girlfriend is looking to cheat on you, that would be catagorized as fear, which is negative believing. It is an exact fear, called jealousy. This type of believing, negative believing, brings with it bad results/consequences.

You can believe, or not believe, which would be unbelief. Or you can believe as in trust or believe as in fear. All these things and many more are related and have to do with believing, they are different aspects of believing.

Believing is like gravity, gravity exist and you see the results but you cannot actually see gravity. Believing exist, it is a spiritual law instead of a physical law and it has affects. It affects everyone, everyday, but most have no clue about it, or how it works or that they can change their believing and change the course of their lifes by changing their believing, by believing positively and by believing God and His Word/Words.

This is a very simple but detailed subject that is actually very cool to learn and begin to operate in your life.

People have the ability to change their beliefs, they have the ability to change their minds, their thought patterns and become very positive and not stay negative or in unbelief. It is all about learning to control your mind, your thoughts, so that they are positive believing thoughts and not thoughts of doubt, worry or fear.

Pletho