I am not artsy in any form but some like this.

Star stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84...layer_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cd36...ayer_embedded#!

Regards
DL

I have seen so many threads take off on tangents that I never know what will be a good topic and what not. Hell, I have even knocked my own thread off depending on who says what. It all comes out in the wash.

Time will tell.

Regards
DL

"There is a difference between happiness and wisdom: he that thinks himself the happiest man is really so; but he that thinks himself the wisest is generally the greatest fool."

- Francis Bacon

And to be clear... There's nothing wrong with you starting this thread. My comments against it were only reasons why I didn't take an interest in it.

Warehouses are filled with what you don't understand.

No sweat friend.

Regards
DL

Fyp

The word trinity does not appear anywhere in the bible, nor is it found in any Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew texts of any kind.

It is simply a non-biblical word that BECAME church doctrine more than 300 years after the death of Jesus Christ.

The word trinity is derived from the word "triune" from pagan religions that had 3 gods. At no point and time did God, the Christ, Angels, Apostles or disciples every declare Jesus Christ was God. As many as 116 times Jesus Christ is declared to be the son of God in the new testament.

Every similarity between Jesus Christ and God in the bible that some use to allude to that Jesus Christ was God actually make all Christians God also.

Let me explain; All the characteristics and attributes that people use to try and prove that Jesus Christ is God or that they rest their believing on about Jesus Christ being God, can be proven from the word of God to also be innate in all Christian believers. Which would by sheer logic make all Christians God, which I know I am not, are you?

Definition of the Trinity: The Union of three persons or hypostases (as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) in one godhead so that all three persons are one God as to substance but three persons or hypostases as to individuality. **International Dictionary of the English Language Unabridged** 1966

A full definition of the trinity is not very easy to find. The Catholic Church does not want people discussing the trinity or the details of the trinity and some protestant churches feel the same way.

The above definition basically claims that God and Jesus Christ are EQUAL, which is a blatant out and out lie and in absolute total contradiction to many, many clear verses of scripture.

By all definitions the trinity has three parts, God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. These all three are considered to be God. Yet in practice (which is how people normally operate) the Holy Spirit is never even viable. Then in some groups God is slowly or totally eliminated out of the picture and replaced with one NON-BIBLICAL god, "Jesus the God" and people call Jesus "God" and they end up worshipping him ONLY.

This is major hypocrisy because they do not even practice their own doctrine. They also do not even believe the bible which they claim to believe.

Close to 300 years after the first century church of believers had fallen away from Gods word, the trinity was FORMULATED. Prior to this formulation of the trinity, the Christians were being tortured by the hand of the Byzantine Empires emperor. Eventually a change began to take place when Constantine became emperor.

Constantine was a worshipper of the sun god and gods as his predecessors were. Constantine claimed to have had a vision while worshipping the sun. He claimed to have seen a cross in the sun and in this vision was told by a combination of the sun god and Jesus that he would be victorious at war. (He may have made this up for wise political reasons, which some believe, or he may have actually had a vision from a devil spirit, which is very common, who knows?) Constantine was victorious in his battle, giving him full reign over the empire.

Later on, Constantine the emperor, still a partial sun god worshipper ( he believed that Jesus was part of the sun god), called together all the bishops of what had been the Christian church of that time and was now the Roman Catholic Church. Of the approximately 1,800 bishops, some say 220 actually came and most say 318 came to the meeting. All agree that the bishops that were present at this meeting were over-awed (because the emperor had been cutting off Christians heads) by the presence of the emperor who called the meeting and ACTIVELY PRESIDED over it.

Some historians say he openly formulated the doctrine of the trinity; others say he did it more stealthily through bishops with whom he had special relationships. (Now for the first time, the Christians were no longer being tortured and murdered by the Byzantine emperor. (A reprieve like this would cause even the strongest of the believers to consider compromise.) Many of the bishops present DID NOT LIKE the doctrine at all, but the majority of the bishops who were adamantly against the Trinitarian doctrine (who were very many) were not even present at this meeting.

The new doctrine of the trinity, of three gods that somehow made up one God, was a brilliant political move. Because the majority of the non-Christians that Constantine was trying to motivate had triad or triune gods. The only monotheistic religions (believing in one God) were the Jews and the pre-Council of Nicaea Christians.

This counsel that occurred in 325 A.D. called the by Constantine is called the Council of Nicaea. The trinity is also commonly referred to as the Nicene Creed. This council that Constantine put together was the beginning of the church-state. Almost ALL of history concurs that the doctrine of the trinity, the Nicene Creed, developed by Constantine and a few bishops who were his associates, is a compilation of Constantine's religious beliefs, Greek philosophy (metaphysics), and Christianity.

Overall by the power of life and death that Constantine held in his hand, all but two bishops signed the Nicene Creed, the doctrine of the trinity. Constantine has those two exiled. Things did not go as well as he had planned because many of the bishops REFUSED to promulgate the trinity, including many of those who signed the document.

Constantine had Arius, the leader of the those highly opposed to the Trinitarian doctrine, exiled. He also crafted and decree branding all those who opposed to the new doctrine of the trinity as heretics, and the punishment for this heresy was to be burned to death. But to those Christians who believe in the new doctrine he offered special favors and privileges. These favors and privileges caused large numbers of pagans to turn to this new church-state Trinitarian style Christianity., further watering down and degrading the Christian church with pagan un-believers.

All history agrees that it took over 50 years to suppress the bishops and the common people into establishing the trinity (Nicene Creed) as a primary doctrine in what is now called the Roman Catholic Church.

Man it took you long enough this threads been opened for a few days.

Well I have been ignoring this whole forum altogether....... But I came through for you.

ty sir the trinity hurts my head.

Pletho,

When the word 'trinity' was used is a red herring. It makes no difference. The question is whether or not the Jesus claimed to be divine, and what the Apostles believed.

As far as your attempt to attribute the doctrine to Augustine is just off base. I have shown you wrong before. There is plenty of writings by the early church fathers that this doctrine was held from the beginning.

OP,

I did not read through the thread, so maybe this has been pointed out, but your logic is very flawed. In order for you to show that Jesus being a 100% God and the Father being a 100% God to be contradictory you would first have to show that what it means to be God is incompatible with the aforementioned 'personalities'. Just adding stuff up means nothing.

I am 100% human and 100% Caucasian. Is this a logical contradiction?

a paradox will do that.

I think people need to understand the word divine as it is used in the bible if you are going to take that line. Because what most people think is that divine means he was God. Which is not what the word means.

As for the rest of my post you need to read it...

All I need to do is find 1% contadition because the doctrine of the trinity states that they are 100% equal.....

Also, if you do not believe me, thats okay all the other Christians in the world are decieved also into believing this doctrine because #1 they do not respect the written word of God and #2 they do not do any research on the subject, I uderstand this subject very well and did my best to refrain from quoting scripture, but If I have to quote scripture which will also be ignored I might?

A confusing mess of lies will also do that, which is the case with the trinity and thats one reason they do not want people to discuss it, because it makes no friggin sense at all. And a logical person will see that it makes no logical sense with the written word of God.

Pletho,

I really feel you should refrain from using words and phrases like "deceived" and "don't respect the word". Can't you just accept that you might be wrong, or that I (and others) might be just as honest in our quest as you but come to different conclusions?

You can quote all the scripture you would like, but make sure to have commentary and be ready to look at the context.

I am more that happy to look at this subject with you, but if you want to have a real conversation you must check the condescension at the door. We agreed to be civil before, and I would like to keep it that way. But if you are unwilling or unable then I will just move on to something else.

God Bless

I mean no disrespect to you or anyone by saying what I have said.

The only way we can look at this subject in more depth is to have a thread entirely devoted to it, we would have to stick to the word of God, not commentary about the word of God, unless you meant our own commentary.

I would be more than civil and glad to show you exactly why I believe what I believe and then let you and anyone else make your own decisions as to what you believe. But the word of God is sooo full of contradictory evidence to the trinity its absolutely amazing that anyone would believe it.

I understand why people do though, because thats what they have been taught. So it makes sense but in the end the word of God has to be the final say no matter who says otherwise or how many say otherwise. Right?

The only way I would even consider discussing this publicky seriously is if there is a mutual agreement that the word of God has the last say so on the matter.

What hurts my head is more along the lines of when God talks to himself. Like when Jesus says father why have you forsaken me.

LOL! Well you do not have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out!

Well done batair, well done! I love it!

I have to admit, Pletho makes a lot of good points in this thread. The Trinity was always something that bothered me when I was a Christian. The fact that no one could explain it satisfactorily didn't fill me with confidence, to say the least.

I think you're making far too much of it Pletho.

Its like you are putting man in charge instead of God.

Do you believe that the double slit experiment was made up? Did you watch the quantum eraser video that was posted? Was that a hoax?

Not the same thing. But you knew that.

Even if he showed context and brought commentary, who's to say you would change your mind? You didnt provide any such thing when claiming that atheists can get into heaven. You can't provide ONE verse from the bible that backs u up on that, yet you speak about it as if its obvious.

i did provide that. I backed it up plenty. that convo went no where because you were being dogmatic about your position.