A question to theist who don't believe in any one religion. - Page 2 - Religion, God, and Theology

I hope this thread isn't too similar to my other thread. The other thread kinda got derailed by talk of how ****ty cucumbers are and by the fact that I asked about people who hate religion, so I decided to make a new thread. This thread isn't about hating religion, it's about not believing in any one religion.

Ok here's my question. For those of you who believe in God but don't believe in any one religion, why do you believe in God and how do you justify your belief in your mind? Why is a belief in God justifiable?

logically, I cannot think the world is random

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02-27-2014 , 10:02 AM

#27

zumby

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Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

logically, I cannot think the world is random

Who says it is?

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02-27-2014 , 10:33 AM

#28

metsandfinsfan

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Originally Posted by zumby

Who says it is?

well if it's not random then it is designed

who designed it

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02-27-2014 , 10:48 AM

#29

metsandfinsfan

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Originally Posted by DaYu

Given that the universe is most likely infinite, I find it difficult to "imagine it as a whole."

If God = the Universe,

then why do we need the concept of God? Can't I just imagine the universe in scientific terms?

who created the universe

an atheist can come up with creative answers to this but there really is no absolute answer which implies there is a God

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02-27-2014 , 10:51 AM

#30

neeeel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

well if it's not random then it is designed

who designed it

It depends how you are defining random I guess, but gravity, for instance, always works in the same way, and so in that sense could be said to not be random.

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who created the universe

You are assuming a "who". Begging the question , in other words

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02-27-2014 , 10:55 AM

#31

well named

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mets: why do you suppose that the existence of order (you said design but I think order is more proper, as opposed to randomness) necessitates the existence of a designer? What is it about order that makes this so?

NeueRegal: I said "perhaps" and "often" to try to be clear that I'm not trying to paint with too broad a brush. I don't mean to suggest that it's impossible to be an atheist and see the world in a way that is "religious" in some aspects. But there are also plenty of atheists who tend towards nihilistic views or a fairly simplistic hedonism.

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02-27-2014 , 11:15 AM

#32

metsandfinsfan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by neeeel

It depends how you are defining random I guess, but gravity, for instance, always works in the same way, and so in that sense could be said to not be random.

You are assuming a "who". Begging the question , in other words

im not sure what you are asking

is who the wrong word? you are saying it should be a what?

im not buying it

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02-27-2014 , 11:17 AM

#33

metsandfinsfan

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Originally Posted by well named

I wish I could clearly answer that.

but i think it goes for anything.

When you plan something, there is order. when things are led to chance there is often chaos

that is why the word anarchy has a negative connotation

-----

i find the symmetries of life evidence of a designer. i know evolutionists will say that evolution causes symettry but i cannot understand why

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02-27-2014 , 11:26 AM

#34

neeeel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

im not sure what you are asking

is who the wrong word? you are saying it should be a what?

im not buying it

Im not asking you to buy anything, I am just pointing out that you are including in your question, part of the answer. That is, by asking "Who created it", you are narrowing down the possible set of answers, and excluding an answer that doesnt have a "who". You are assuming, before you even ask the question, that there is a creator ( either a who, or a what, it doesnt matter)

Its kind of like asking "have you stopped beating your wife yet"?

Or, "why did you steal my cake" ,

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02-27-2014 , 11:28 AM

#35

neeeel

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Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

did someone design the giants causeway in ireland?

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02-27-2014 , 11:32 AM

#36

metsandfinsfan

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Originally Posted by neeeel

no. i already explained due to order that I believe there is a who. i have tried to assume there isnt and cant come to any conclusion that makes sense

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02-27-2014 , 11:34 AM

#37

metsandfinsfan

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Originally Posted by neeeel

did someone design the giants causeway in ireland?

i believe mythology says it was a GIANT!!!

i do not get your point

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02-27-2014 , 11:39 AM

#38

neeeel

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Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

no. i already explained due to order that I believe there is a who. i have tried to assume there isnt and cant come to any conclusion that makes sense

1)Ordered universes are created by an entity
2)I see order, therefore this universe was created by an entity

What is your evidence for (1)?

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02-27-2014 , 11:40 AM

#39

metsandfinsfan

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Originally Posted by neeeel

1)Ordered universes are created by an entity
2)I see order, therefore this universe was created by an entity

What is your evidence for (1)?

I don't have any

so what

1) you have no proof that GOD exists
2) therefore, believing in GOD is dumb

it's really that simple?

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02-27-2014 , 11:41 AM

#40

neeeel

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Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

i believe mythology says it was a GIANT!!!

i do not get your point

My point is that seemingly orderly structures can arise out of seemingly random events( volcanic eruption, or however the giants causeway was created)

So evidence of order is not necessarily evidence of anything else.

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02-27-2014 , 11:43 AM

#41

metsandfinsfan

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Originally Posted by neeeel

there is too much order in the world for me to believe that

also, you are assuing that those events are truly random

it is possible that God caused the volcanic eruption but you immediately discount that

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02-27-2014 , 11:43 AM

#42

neeeel

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Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

I don't have any

so what

1) you have no proof that GOD exists
2) therefore, believing in GOD is dumb

it's really that simple?

It is always interesting and useful to look into beliefs, where they came from, and why you hold them. This doesnt just apply to theists.

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02-27-2014 , 11:44 AM

#43

metsandfinsfan

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I also love how the OP Is about beliefs but my belief is criticized because there is no evidence

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02-27-2014 , 11:45 AM

#44

neeeel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

Its also possible that giants created it, or irish leprechauns created it.

giants causeway IS an example of an ordered structure with a non mystical explanation(volcanic eruption), yet you somehow reject that?

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02-27-2014 , 11:46 AM

#45

metsandfinsfan

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Originally Posted by neeeel

It is always interesting and useful to look into beliefs, where they came from, and why you hold them. This doesnt just apply to theists.

sure it does

i have a degree in philosophy

i am always looking into where my beliefs come from

my conclusion is: we dont have all the answers

i am okay with that

i am still allowed to believe things

your argument is "there is no proof that god exists, all order can be explained by randomness"

my argument is "there is no proof that god doesn't, and the world is too ordered for me to believe he doesnt"

i respect your opinion

you dont respect mine

---

as much as i hate when religious people are pompous, pompous atheists piss me off more

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02-27-2014 , 11:47 AM

#46

moo buckets

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Quote:

Originally Posted by neeeel

It is always interesting and useful to look into beliefs, where they came from, and why you hold them. This doesnt just apply to theists.

You know how when you laugh at a joke and someone else doesn't get it, you try to explain it but the humor doesn't come across? It's the same idea. You have to feel it for yourself and stop demanding proof.

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02-27-2014 , 11:47 AM

#47

metsandfinsfan

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Originally Posted by neeeel

Its also possible that giants created it, or irish leprechauns created it.

sure

AND ANYONE WHO BELIEVES IN GOD IS AS DUMB AS ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THAT amirite

----

i find it hard to believe that a sane person believes our only purpose in life is to survive as long as we can

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02-27-2014 , 11:52 AM

#48

neeeel

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Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

You are "allowed" to believe whatever you want.

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your argument is "there is no proof that god exists, all order can be explained by randomness"

no, it isnt

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my argument is "there is no proof that god doesn't, and the world is too ordered for me to believe he doesnt"

I have already pointed out that "being ordered" is not evidence of anything, and you agreed with me, when you said you have no evidence of

1)Ordered universes are created by an entity

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i respect your opinion

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you dont respect mine

What do you mean by respect? Do I think it has large gaping logical holes in it? Yes. Do I think you are believing in things without evidence, or because it makes you feel better ? Yes? Do I do the same? Yes.