Yea! My time spent with my youth group as a kid sorting cans in a food bank was hateful nonsense! We were so evil to volunteer our time to help others in our community. We should have been prosecuted for hate crimes.

I have Aaron on ignore but I see in the post that you quoted that he said this "The distinction between you and LemonZest is that you really believe that people are deluded".

This is incorrect to the point of being obtuse.

I am speculating as to the implications and consequences of the religious being wrong. This is my (basic) argument:

IF the religious are wrong about the existence of the gods that they believe in, i.e. they don't actually exist, they might be considered delusional rather than just 'wrong'.

that doesn't contradict anything aaronw said. obviously the deluded comment would only apply if they are not correct, and of course aaronw wasn't implying that you consider them delusional even if they are right.

Nope. You're fitting the same mold that almost all of your arguments go through. You take some really broad position about something, and argue yourself into a corner, and then babble some nonsense to try to get out of it.

Very simply, I believe you really think that people are deluded because you are so insistent on holding onto that word. If you didn't really think that religious people were deluded, we wouldn't be spending time talking about the "implications" of believing in God and how it relates to being "deluded."

You like to "speculate." You most often "speculate" on things where you hold the antecedent of the argument to be true, so that you can justify your beliefs to yourself. (You don't believe God exists, so you're basically saying here that you are correct to open the question as to whether religious people are deluded. However, you can ask that question even WITHOUT having to discuss the antecedent. Are religious people deluded? It's certainly possible. Are irreligious people deluded? It's also possible.)

In other threads, you have even gone through great lengths to affirm your beliefs in the antecedents, even to the point of being totally dishonest in your position.

(Incidentally, the challenge remains open for you to clarify and justify your statements in that thread as being consistent and reasonable. You have me ignored because you claim I have misrepresented you in that thread. I believe the record is absolutely clear.)

Huh? Aaron said that I believe that 'people are deluded'. How is that the same as me simply wondering if the word would be appropriate IF they're wrong in what they believe?

Who is it that I believe are deluded then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicature

Totally...

You don't have to belong to a religious youth group to volunteer in the community. Volunteering does not negate the fact that you were taught intolerance, hatred, and a flat out rejection towards logical or rational thought. It is 2013 and it really blows my mind that such an archaic belief system is still widely accepted.

I'd marry a theist, as I know a grand total of zero atheist females. As to which faith (or lack there of) we'd raise our children to follow, that's a whole other question that I'm not sure I even have an answer to.

I've thought of this possible scenario a number of times and I always fail to come up with a conclusion.

you're not gonna win any tolerance awards anytime soon.

Although I am an atheist, I prefer not to take the "Richard Dawkins Approach" when discussing religion. Frankly, how he (and your quoted post) talks is condescending and discourages any actual intellectual discussion.

Just keep it low-key and honest. Letting her run a faith show that you aren't, ultimately, ok with is like falling in love with someone who's routinely slurping their morning coffee. You find it cute for teh first year, ok for the next five but it'll work your last nerve around year 7.

So I should tolerate intolerance?

ugg

I see, you're trying to fight intolerance with intolerance. I don't think you understand how this works.

The ironing is delicious...

First of all, you're right. I didnt need to be part of a church in order to see the value of volunteerism. I could have been taught that with any number of community organizations, schools, or even my friends/family. But I was said that basically all churches teach their kids "hateful nonsense" (never mind the inherent hate latent in that statement) and that, ego, I was taught to be hateful. I will gladly say that I am no less than 95% free of hateful speech or acts towards other people because my church taught me that God values people no matter who they are and that we should be good to people no matter how much we may dislike them. So because of that, what my church (and my parents) taught me was:

- Though I don't agree with the act or want to see it happen much, I support gay marriage because the strongest arguments against it are religious in nature and we don't live in a theocracy and what consenting people do with each other in the bedroom is between them and God.
- What you do about your response to God in however way you've understood Him is ultimately between you and Him. No form of coercion will ever change that, so why engage in that?
- Regardless of what you believe or don't believe, any law for/against or whitting of our religious rights, whether Christian, Muslim, or pagan; harms my personal freedom because once that happens, only the popular are protected and we are acting against the very thing over half of my country was founded upon.

But hey, y'know, I've totally been brainwashed to hate.

I can only laugh at the this post, because someone who clearly doesn't know me, doesn't know my upbringing, or has had any interactions with me at all (probably hasn't even read my posts) is painting me with a broad stroke assuming that I am a certain way just because I identify myself with a certain group of people.

Prejudging me if you want to say it simply... and he says I'm the one who has been taught to think illogically.

It really helps your argument to not present yourself as the very thing you are arguing against because, at best, you mageralinize yourself as a blithering God-hater who is angry at His invisible father in the sky. Who wants to be like that?

Say you do convince them that their religion has turned them to become hateful, what will they do? Trade in their hate for your hate? I mean, why would they do that? At least their hate has a retirement plan...

Apologies for the derail, but it's a mystery to me why this is not the standard religious attitude towards gay marriage.

many believe the US should operate somewhat as a theocracy, even if only in practice and not in name.

It's not because it's religious coming from religious people, it's only natural to want to have your worldview supported by your country and where you live. If the govt is democratic then it would make sense that those who make the laws represent those worldviews. And those lawmakers create laws based on them, regardless of how altruistic or myopic those laws are. Unfortunately, thats why the we need the courts stepping in to abolish segregation and to kill DOMA. Inequity is popular.

I dont think the majority of people have have much of a difference between personal and political views. I dont think many people really consider what other's may want/need over what they do. Let alone, to be able to consider my #3 as it forces people to have a perspective far beyond two or three years in the future.

Hopefully we can get past any idea that I'm mocking you for having Dyslexia and agree that that's a good one... lol.

Prejudging? You are damn right I am. I am sorry I never bought into the belief that some Jew died and came back to life 2000 years ago. I don't follow some old man in the sky because if I don't I am doomed to an eternity in some hot place.

Agreed

Since when? God drowned the entire population at one point because he thought they were acting like pricks. God will doom you to eternal damnation if you choose to act certain ways. Face it, the Christian god is a prick.

What does gay marriage have to do with anything? I don't care about gay marriage and it should be legalized on a state by state basis. I would actually prefer it to be illegal because my facebook feed is filled with liberal douches and it really rustles their jimmies.

What people do in the bedroom is between them and god? Do you know how crazy you sound? Some powerful being in the sky or wherever has something to do with what I do in my bedroom? This is just madness and eventually I see people who believe in such obvious nonsense to be medicated and treated.

Proud to have prejudice!

Well, at least you don't need no religion to have compassion for others;

The Old Man and the Sky is my favorite Hemingway novel.