If people who have never heard of Jesus can still get into Heaven by 'living a good life' (as most theists here seem to think), then why did Jesus have to die? Why could not have we received the same deal?

cause he likes to act like a d1ck..

Us Jews like killing.

Do most theists think that?

You need Jesus to be in the First Resurrection.

If you don't have Jesus you will be in the Second Resurrection. The Second Resurrection includes both believers and non-believers.

Well, technically, most theists aren't Christian (I believe), so yes, but as always happens on this forum, everyone confuses 'theist' with 'Christian.'

/pointless aside

Most Christians (ganstaman is right, I meant to write Christians, though most theists on this forum are Christians) in this forum claim this when it is brought up if memory serves.

For those of you who do not hold this position, do you think it impossible for someone who has never heard of Jesus to be saved from eternal damnation/annihiliation?

Do you have a source for this? Just curious, I have never heard this before I do not think. Also, what are the advantages to being in the first?

I'd be very curious to see the source for this, given John 14:6 -- Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

A lot of Christians like to think that non-believers can also get into Heaven, and while that's very compassionate of them, I am not aware of any verse in the Bible that supports this view.

Can anyone correct my understanding with a Biblical quote?

I think it may differ depending on the denominations, but my understanding is that most believe non-believers cannot go to heaven.

Christians believe that we all came from the seed of Adam and are rooted with original sin after Adam had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. The only way to get cleansed of this sin is through Jesus Christ. This is the reason even babies who have done nothing wrong that die are believed to also not go to heaven.

The first group are the holiest and are ruling with Christ.

My source is Dr. Stephen E. Jones a biblical scholar:

The Purpose of Resurrection:http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.o...ter.cfm?CID=73

The First and Second Resurrection:
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.o...ter.cfm?CID=74

See my links to Deorum's post below.

To answer your first question, because even those who have never heard of Jesus can only get into Heaven because of Jesus' sacrifice.

+1

That's a damned shame, given that Jesus's papa created an awful lot of people in this world, alive, right now, who will never even hear the name of "Jesus".

Can they still get in on Jesus's sacrifice without even knowing who he was, much less believing in his fantastical claims?

And what of those who died before Jesus was even born? (this one is always fun, yeah?)

Most Christians I have asked have told me people who have never heard of Jesus can still get into Heaven.

So people who have never heard of Jesus have no shot at ruling in Heaven? That does not seem very fair.

But before Jesus we had to sacrifice animals. The entire reason for Jesus' death was so we did not have to do that anymore; now we just have to accept His sacrifice. These people were never going to be doing that anyway.

Jesus died to everyone can get to heaven. "Noone goes to the Father but through me" (John 14:6). The people before Christ who were deemed righteous for heaven waited in limbo, aka Abraham's bosom. This is where Jesus went when 'He descended into hell', he went to let those awaiting the opening of heaven and preached to them/let them into heaven.

As it is, God may judge those who were born before Christ, not heard of Christ, or not accepted Christ. If they are deemed worthy, they will enter into heaven, however it is only through Christ's death and resurrection will we resurrect and enter heaven.

Does this mean all of those people will be judged by works alone?

So then...

I recommend that instead of this lazy man's method of asking questions that you spend some time on Dr. Stephen E. Jones's site. Read several of his works particularly Creations Jubilee, The Secrets of Time, etc. He has many writings on his site.

That way you get the breadth of scripture. It's very hard sometimes for someone to articulate every step of God's plan from the beginning of God's plan all the way through Revelation. A question is a starting place but if you really want to know at some point you've got to start at A and go through to Z in a better fashion then this chopped up debate style (with people interrupting all the time) allows.

You either really want to know how the God of the bible is working out his plan or you don't. If you do I suggest that you be thorough and spend some time on that site I linked above.

So what's the point of believing in him then? So i don't have to believe, I don't have to spend countless hours in church, I don't have to pray and I still am going to haven if I was a good person? Talk about wasted time , i feel bad for those who spend so much time on prayer, church ,etc...

Thoughtful question OP and while I am no scholar on this issue I will say what I think reflects on what I've been taught in the Christian church and what I believe in my heart.

As Christians our goal is to spread the gospel all over the world so that everyone can have an opportunity to accept Christ. In reality this will not happen and there are currently hundreds of languages that the Bible is not even translated in. It is my belief that God is a perfect judge and He will judge the HEARTS of all people whether or not they have heard the Gospel...I do not believe God will "punish" people who have never had the chance to hear the name of Jesus. The God I know is just and strongly desires to be reconciled with us. Now for those of us who have had the opportunity to hear and reject it, then I believe we will be held to a higher standard.

To me this verse only applies to those who have had an opportunity to hear the truth: "If anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him -- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day"

There's a big difference between rejecting Christ and never having heard about him. Too many Chrisitians focus on the judgement and wrath of God and miss the more important parts of God's nature that include an intense desire to be reconciled with us.

I don't know that most Christians believe that. I know that I was taught that one had to accept Jesus as your savior to go to heaven. I've seen many Christians mirror this belief here.

I believe the idea that non believers can get into heaven is a newer idea and not widely accepted. And it directly contradicts sections of the Bible.

I recall an NPR story a year or so ago about a leader of a megachurch who came out with this idea. (he was an african american church leader of a huge megachurch. He was contacted by the White house during the Bush years...) When he came to the belief that everyone could go to heaven his congregation rejected and left him.

People want to be in an exclusive club. The idea that non-christians can get in I don't think is very a very popular or accepted idea in mainstream christianity.