lolz, i'm watching the Matrix right now

Trinity and Neo are rescuing Morpheus

Historically you can always find a group of people (not just one but numerous) that display the faith practiced in the bible.

As atheists we cant prove god does not exist . Theists cant prove god does. = Draw. Why get so excited? I think it might be preferable if there was a god ,dont you?

[QUOTE=Jibninjas;14763425]This is right. In fact Jesus said something to the extent of "If you don't believe me because of what I say, believe me because of what I do"[quote]

So far so good, I mean, why should God/Jesus not demonstrate his power directly, with no room for misinterpretation?

I don't know what that is supposed to mean. While the NT obviously takes place over a very short period of time, the OT took place over a much longer period and God is depicted as having a constant, active presence there.

C'mon, looking deep into the structure of the eye to try and figure out if it could have evolved naturally or must have been designed by God is more powerful than Jesus turning a few fish into thousands? Or turning a woman into a pillar of salt? Or smiting only the first borns of a kingdom?

Well, certain the rigour with which we would examine such evidence. For example, if I saw someone turn a stick into a snake I would of course automatically assume that there was some trick involved. But I'm sure God would be pretty good at coming up with direct and obvious miracles that would ensure that no such trickery was evident.

Well, I'm not sure that helps your argument. It is unsurprising that less sophisticated peoples would be more susceptible to interpreting certain events in mystical ways.

Again, how hard would it be really for God to demonstrate his power in a way to convince even skeptical Americans (who are among the most religious people in the world by the way.

Not really... You should take a closer look at the Old Testament. After the Exodus, God does very few dramatic miracles for the population at large.

Consider how Jesus was unable to perform very many miracles in certain towns. It seems that people have the ability to prevent God from performing certain types of acts. Also consider the existence of a nocebo effect in contrast to the placebo effect.

Beliefs apparently can have a real impact on outcomes.

Yea, like when god kills armies when the Israelites are sacking Canaan?

Do you even read what you write? You just proved my point. You wouldn't be a Christian even if you knew it's all true. Hence it isn't the lack of evidence for the truth of Christianity that leads you to reject Christianity.

You made the assertion that God doesn't exist. In other words, you made a claim that a strong atheist would make. As a result, you do have a burden of proof.

This just shows your ignorance in logic. It is not true that it is impossible to prove a negative.

This is so ironic. You posted the nonsense below, yet you think that I should get help.

No no no... it's HU 4 SOULZ around here.

If you are an unreliable observer, this could effect any observations or conclusions you make, be they religious or scientific.

Be that as it may - within the framework of taking for granted that you are reliable, even though you may not be - the workings of science do not require any additional leap of faith. It is a coherent and internally consistent system, and it is represented in things like engineering, medicine, probability, etc..

However - within that same framework - the conventional wisdom regarding Christianity is that you must accept things "on faith." Faith is regarded as a virtue. Faith above and beyond the "faith" required to assume that what you feel, read, think, etc., is reliable.

Faith above and beyond the "faith" that you say is required to trust "scientific evidences."

Quote:
your god still doesnt exist.....


This just shows your ignorance in logic. It is not true that it is impossible to prove a negative.

Your asking him to prove a negative in the first place lol
This thread is seriously tilt worthy from both perspectives.

Based on what knowledge? What knowledge do you have that says Christian God is real?

This is just plain wrong, why should atheists have to prove something doesn't exist?
In no other argument is someone asked to disprove something that is fictional.

I don't like people talking about science as being a faith, there are theories in science, sure, but it would be frowned upon if a scientist skipped the whole finding evidence and doing repeatable testing and started spreading his theory as fact.
If we suck all the oxygen out of an airtight room and throw some people posting on this thread in there, we are not relying on faith, we are using tried and tested methods to come to our conclusion as to what would happen to them.
Can anyone name one test to prove a God of a religious denomination?

Nice post, I'm not sure why theists keep raising science up in conversation, as if believing in science is the same as having faith that a particular God is real. Where is the theists scientific argument that
a) God is real
b) God is alive
c) God can be communicated with
d) God has communicated with us
e) That the God that they have chosen to follow is the right one
f) That they know how God wanted them to interpret his words (if d is true)

I thought faith in God was helping people out in a selfless manner and being a good person. Is an atheists exhibiting faith in God if he helps a poor family out with 0 evidence and 0 certainty in God ?

One of the places Jesus couldn't perform miracles was in his home town or in the vicinity of his close family or something. Did they lack faith in him? And wouldn't lack of faith also have prevented miracles like Sodom and Gomorrah?

No. The Bible is pretty clear that faith is what is God desires, and that if your faith is genuine, you will show it by following His commands.

So, genuine faith will naturally produce good works (helping a poor family out, for example), but someone doing good work doesn't necessarily mean the person has faith.

It's like watching someone shoot a basketball, I suppose. Seeing someone toss a three pointer in doesn't necessarily imply skill - I suck ass at basketball but I could still just lob the basketball toward the hoop and make a shot. However, skill at basketball does imply someone is more likely to make three pointers - you should definitely pick an NBA star over me to shoot three pointers if you want to win a bet.

By the way, we are talking about God and the bible if you did not know.

Believing has ALWAYS been required by God.

So does that mean under his definition of faith, which he said is required for salvation it the other thread, an atheist is ineligible for salvation ?

this is not a very nice op... according to: http://friendlyatheist.com/faq/

this is how an atheist should act:

What exactly is a “friendly atheist”?

A friendly atheist is someone who:

Believes everyone should do what makes them happy, provided they are not stopping anyone else from doing the same.

Does not think someone is inferior for believing in God, but can engage in polite conversation about that decision.

Shows kindness, volunteers, and helps others.

Does not go around denigrating religious people unnecessarily, because he/she knows that to get respect, one must give it.

Can talk to a religious person without invoking an argument.

Questions his/her own beliefs as much as others’ beliefs.

Invites positive dialogue from religious people.

Obviously not, since humans were around for 100,000 years before the Christianity, Jesus, or the bible even existed.

Tell that to atheist philosopher Richard Carrier, who says it's a myth that you can't prove a negative. If proving a negative is too hard, then maybe he should become an agnostic-atheist and stop making claims like "your god doesn't exist."

Meh, I would just like to see some proof or someone answer my questions on the last page

It would be wrong for me to say your God Does not exist, but then it would also be wrong for you to say 26 other Gods who are more powerful do not exist.

no

Homophobia?

At a parish across town from us they had a huge party when their music director left to take the prestigious position of Director of the Municipal Gay Men's Chorus. Uh...guess what his orientation was?

Pretty sure the Episcopal church has a gay Bishop now as well as priests.

You know, if you are looking for the first person you can stop from spreading bigotry and hatred, might want to try the mirror.

I'm sorry for whatever someone did to upset you so much. That they may have done it in the name of God, doesn't mean God approved at all. People do evil and find ways to justify it. A lot of them use God's name in vain when they do this. Which says a lot about them and their unfortunate future if they don't get a clue.

Doesn't change Love, though.

This works better for me, also. But people are on different parts of the path and so, their faith experience really needs a somewhat different definition, I think.

C'mon Prax, while I agree LLD has been acting like raging douche the last day or so, just because there are some fringe elements among the christian faith who are not anti-gay (which is certainly welcome to see), it is hardly unfair to say that the history of the Church has been overwhelmingly anti-gay.

I didn't say it was unfair that the history of the Church could be characterized as anti-gay. He painted everyone with the same brush. He's wrong. He's wronger (yeah - I know - just havin' fun with language) than he knows. So are you.

Episcopalians are hardly "fringe elements." Neither is the United Church of Christ, founders of Harvard University or many other mainstream Protestant churches that welcome and support gay people. No gay folks were ever rejected in my parish or any parish I was in, in the Archdiocese of Denver. They might have been someplace, but it wasn't something the Archbishop would have stood for or my own parish priest. We weren't a "fringe."

Now, move east to Virginia, and the Church is very different, politically oriented. Some priest actually told us all to sign an anti-gay marriage petition as we left Mass. I got up before he finished speaking and walked out. Never went to another Mass there. Did go and pray.

Look, gay is a biological trait that occurs at a fairly predictable rate in pretty much every animal population including human and there are lots of gay folks who are theists and Christians.

The OP spreading hatred is not better than the hatred he has encountered somewhere and no more justified.