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Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Proof We Are Living In The Last Days.

07-11-2012 , 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
PTL: is there a difference between belief and knowledge in your opinion?
No
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-11-2012 , 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay The Line
No
Welp, thats about enough talking to you then.

Enjoy your troll boys, he done well.
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-11-2012 , 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay The Line
No
Do you believe your mother exists or do you know your mother exists?
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-11-2012 , 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
PTL: is there a difference between belief and knowledge in your opinion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay The Line
No
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-11-2012 , 11:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zumby
And this one?

"I think God is highly likely to exist, but I don't know for sure"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay The Line
The best fit is Agnostic
A whole lot of theists just became agnostic. Gods going to be pissed.
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmargarine
Do you believe your mother exists or do you know your mother exists?
Both
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 12:04 AM
1. I don't believe in God
2. Not sure if God exists

[ ] 1 and 2 are equally strong arguments
[ ] 1 is a stronger argument then 2
[ ] 2 is a stronger argument then 1
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 12:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay The Line
1. I don't believe in God
2. Not sure if God exists

[ ] 1 and 2 are equally strong arguments
[ ] 1 is a stronger argument then 2
[ ] 2 is a stronger argument then 1
The strength of the statement is irrelevant and honestly, your simplifications only serve to demonstrate that you don't understand the material. Just google agnosticism vs atheism and take the first few results and read a little.
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 12:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nsight7
The strength of the statement is irrelevant and honestly, your simplifications only serve to demonstrate that you don't understand the material. Just google agnosticism vs atheism and take the first few results and read a little.
Everyone else feel the same way?

You guys sure hate to answer yes and no questions. You always need to have an elaborate answer.
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay The Line
Everyone else feel the same way?
Yes.

Quote:
You guys sure hate to answer yes and no questions. You always need to have an elaborate answer.
Because it's frustrating to talk to someone who won't do a little research to see that they're completely wrong.
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 12:28 AM
PTL: There are the things that you believe. There are the things that are true (reflect reality). Knowledge is when a thing that you believe is also a thing that is true.

One of the problems that comes up when talking about belief vs knowledge is how to know if something is true (before you jump on that, I doubt anyone will want to get into a discussion with you about the fundamentals of epistemology if you won't listen to them about the definition of these words!!).
Another problem is when someone mistakes the strength of their belief for the truth. This is why I prefer to think of agnosticism in terms of "it can/cannot be known for God to exist" over "I know/don't know if God exists" so you can't just make bald assertions.

Also, I did go to the trouble of posting this for you earlier, re: the differences between these three positions: believing | not believing | believing not. I don't know if you find this thread frustrating, but for the most part people are trying to be constructive, but you don't want to listen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish
PTL, here is something that really helped me:

Imagine you are a juror deciding on a defendant's fate. The judge asks you to give a verdict:
If you find the evidence convincing, you would say guilty ("I believe X")
If you find the evidence unconvincing, you would say not guilty ("I do not believe X").
If you find them not guilty, you do not have to go so far as to find them innocent ("I believe not X").

Do you have a problem with insufficient evidence finding someone not guilty, without needing to resort to calling them innocent? In neither case have you sent the guy to jail.
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 12:34 AM
Meh. You know your body has two hands.
Do you see how that is knowledge and not a matter of belief?
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish
Knowledge is when a thing that you believe is also a thing that is true.
No, not really.
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmargarine
Meh. You know your body has two hands.
Do you see how that is knowledge and not a matter of belief?
Depends on how you define knowledge. You may be a brain in a jar, after all. (Really didn't want to say this as it's likely to confuse the **** out of Pay The Line)
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 12:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay The Line
No
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004
Welp, thats about enough talking to you then.

Enjoy your troll boys, he done well.
Yeah, it's pretty well looking that way. PTL if you're not, in fact, a troll, perhaps you can elaborate. What leads you to think that knowledge and belief are synonyms?
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 12:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfasdf32
Yes.
I would think that 2. Not sure if God exists, would be a stronger statement. Your then saying that the knowledge of the whole universe is stronger than what you believe.

Who is more awesome? The universe or me. Sorry, guys, but I'm gonna go with the universe.

And why couldn't you assign different weights to 1 and 2?

1. I don't believe in God
2. Not sure if God exists
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish
PTL: There are the things that you believe. There are the things that are true (reflect reality). Knowledge is when a thing that you believe is also a thing that is true.

One of the problems that comes up when talking about belief vs knowledge is how to know if something is true (before you jump on that, I doubt anyone will want to get into a discussion with you about the fundamentals of epistemology if you won't listen to them about the definition of these words!!).
Another problem is when someone mistakes the strength of their belief for the truth. This is why I prefer to think of agnosticism in terms of "it can/cannot be known for God to exist" over "I know/don't know if God exists" so you can't just make bald assertions.

Also, I did go to the trouble of posting this for you earlier, re: the differences between these three positions: believing | not believing | believing not. I don't know if you find this thread frustrating, but for the most part people are trying to be constructive, but you don't want to listen.
Sorry, I saw this and earlier. I still have to go back to the earlier comments and review. I will check it out tomorrow. Thanks!

Need some sleep
Goodnight guys
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 12:59 AM
I've got this one, guys!

Pay:

Say I've got 100 marbles. 1 of the marbles is black and 99 are white. I place one of the marbles in a box without you seeing.

Now, do you believe the marble in the box is black or white?

Or,

Do you know the marble in the box is black or white?
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 01:10 AM
I know the marble in the box is black or white.
I believe the marble in the box is white.

Is that what you were going for?

(And I can't really know either tbh, it would require that I believe your story that you took one marble from the set)

So, actually, I suppose... I believe the marble in the box is black or white.

Maybe, try again.

Last edited by ajmargarine; 07-12-2012 at 01:20 AM.
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic
I've got this one, guys!

Pay:

Say I've got 100 marbles. 1 of the marbles is black and 99 are white. I place one of the marbles in a box without you seeing.

Now, do you believe the marble in the box is black or white?

Or,

Do you know the marble in the box is black or white?
Just as a simple add-on example to the difference between belief and knowledge:

I meet Pay The Line in a bookstore and tell him my name is Rick. He has no reason not to trust me, so he believes my name is Rick. Does he know my name is Rick? Nope.
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 02:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmargarine
No, not really.
Please, mr aj, would you do me the honour of expanding on your post?

Last edited by BeaucoupFish; 07-12-2012 at 02:04 AM. Reason: Seriously, what kind of useless LC post was that?
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 02:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfasdf32
Just as a simple add-on example to the difference between belief and knowledge:

I meet Pay The Line in a bookstore and tell him my name is Rick. He has no reason not to trust me, so he believes my name is Rick. Does he know my name is Rick? Nope.
this is better than mine
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmargarine
I know the marble in the box is white.
I believe the marble in the box is white.

Maybe, try again.
how's this?
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004
How about, I go to a christian church weekly, pray every night, pay money to the church, but I cannot prove that god exists?
Faith
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote
07-12-2012 , 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004
No i don't. Tell me what description best fits that person PTL.
Theist
Proof We Are Living In The Last Days. Quote

      
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