Were you there when they made that prophecy to know it happens exactly like that ?
Or didn’t get distort to fit it or to ressemble it ?

Btw it’s an island , where u think they out the waste of war if not in the water surrounding the island .
It’s very general shrug .
Nothing special there .

Montrealcorp

Secular historians confirmed that the prophecy against Tyre was fulfilled exactly as it was prophesied some 250 years prior. Below is a secular (non-Biblical) source that confirms HOW and WHEN Type was destroyed.

https://www.britannica.com/place/Tyre


I suggest you write the people at Encyclopedia Britannica and lodge a complaint similar to what you posted above. Don't forget to ask them were they there.


Alter2Ego

________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

Lunkwill:

Below is Prophecy No. 5. This time, I am uses the words of Jesus Christ who spoke the prophecies.

"In all the nations the good news has to be preached first." (Mark 13:10)

"You will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth." (Acts 1:8)


When Jesus spoke those words, quoted above, Christianity had only been established among his Hebrew followers. The rest of the world was considered pagan (non-worshipers of the True God, Jehovah)

What secular history reveals:

Non-Biblical writings from the second century testify to the rapid expansion of the original form of Christianity. Roman historian Suetonius suggested that by 49 C.E., Christianity had been established in Rome.

In a letter written to Emperor Trajan about 112 C.E. by Pliny the Younger, governor of Bithynia (in modern-day Turkey), refers to Christianity as a "contagion" that had "spread not merely through the free towns, but into the villages and farms."

Another historian came to the following conclusion: "Within less than a hundred years after the apostolic age places of Christian worship were to be seen in the chief cities of the Empire."

In the book The Early Church, Professor Henry Chadwick states: "The expansion of the church seemed an extraordinary chain of improbabilities. Nothing could have been less likely to succeed by any ordinary standard of expectation."


Alter2Ego

________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

It’s not that some of these are unconfirmed; they ARE confirmed - to be false. The “streams of the Nile” have never dried up. Egypt has never been a desolate wasteland. These prophecies are not unconfirmed; they are false. If we are dealing with writings of a tribe of goat and sheep herders, this certainly is understandable. If we actually are dealing with prophecies made by an all-powerful deity, how can there be ANY that are false? One wrong one is sufficient to refute the all-powerful deity hypothesis. An all-powerful deity would get them all correct.

BTW read Ezekiel 29:1-21. It describes the conquest of Tyre by Nebuchadnezzar, not “by all nations”. Nebuchadnezzar did in fact lay siege to Tyre for 13 years before Tyre capitulated and became a vassal of Babylon, but this is not what Ezekiel says would happen. It says “Thou shall be built no more” and “I shall make thee a desolate city like the cities that are not inhabited”. This doesn’t sound a lot like a prediction that Tyre would capitulate and become a vassal, does it? Sounds almost like a prediction that Tyre would be destroyed and “thou shall be built no more” would seem to predict that it would be destroyed and never rebuilt. Oops… today Tyre is the capital of the Tyre district of Lebanon and has a metro area population of almost 200,000 with a city population of around 60,000. So much for “thou shall be built no more”.

Stremba:

That sort of comment is known as wishful thinking by someone who is desperate to minimize something that he or she cannot overcome. Let me remind you that the Bible writers were used by Almighty God Jehovah to describe the earth as "hanging upon nothing" and that it appears like circle when viewed from above. And guess what? The "tribe of goat and sheep herders" accomplished that some 3,000 years BEFORE 20th century humans were able to confirm it after they developed space flight. As a reminder, below is some of what I stated in my OP:


1. The Prophet Isaiah gave a viewpoint description of how earth appears from outerspace and did it at a time in history when humans were earthbound. Notice below.

"There is One who is dwelling above the CIRCLE of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gaze, who spread them out like a tent in which to dwell," (Isaiah 40:22)

Isaiah's viewpoint description--of a circular earth, when viewed from outer space--was not confirmed or proven until the 20th century, when astronauts were able to view earth from space. In effect, Isaiah, who was earth bound at the time of his writing, gave a viewpoint description that was almost 3,000 years ahead of his time.


2. Similarly, it was not until 1687 that Isaac Newton published his theory that gravitational forces are the explanation behind the earth's stability. More than 3,000 years before Newton's existence, under divine inspiration, Moses wrote the viewpoint description that, when viewed from outer space, earth appears to be hanging upon nothing (indicating invisible gravity), as follows:

"He [Jehovah God] is stretching out the north over the empty place, HANGING THE EARTH UPON NOTHING;" (Job 26:7)


I will respond to the rest of your nonsense in another post.


Alter2Ego


________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

stremba70:

Keep harping on that if you think it will change the fact that there are more than 2,000 accurately fulfilled prophecies in the Judeo-Christian Bible. Your claim that one wrong refutes all the others (despite the fact I've posted at least 5 thus far that were proven to be correct by secular historians) is known as an argument of desperation. You've yet to prove that any of the prophecies were wrong, for that matter. Your premise is that if secular historians did not find the evidence of a prophecy's fulfillment, then the prophecy must be false.

Well, guess what, secular historians argued for decades that the Bible was wrong about certain locations and events mentioned in the Bible. Below are examples of secular historians FAILING to find evidence of things mentioned and then took the same arrogant position that you're taking here, namely: if they can't find the evidence then the Bible is wrong.


"In 1846—before archaeology even existed as a field—an Assyrian obelisk was discovered in what is today northern Iraq. It referred to Jehu, a ninth-century BC Hebrew king. For the first time, an archaeological find corroborated what was in the Bible, and Victorian society was electrified. But this was only the first in a torrent of similar discoveries that challenged secular claims that the Bible is a collection of made-up myths and folktales.

"This trend of archaeology corroborating Biblical accounts continued so consistently that in 1959 Rabbi Dr. Nelson Glueck declared "no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a biblical reference." Since then, the evidence has kept coming."

https://www.newsweek.com/archaeology...pinion-1634339


By the way, does your claim that "One wrong one is sufficient to refute all the rest" apply to Albert Einstein? The forum wants to know.


Alter2Ego


________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

stremba70:

Wait, are you telling me and the rest of this forum that you don't know the difference between a district and an entire nation? Remember, the prophecy at Ezekiel chapter 29 specifically said the NATION of Tyre (and a powerful nation at that) would be destroyed, never to rise again. You are now arguing that a mere district named Tyre is equivalent to the entire nation named Tyre that was destroyed in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Below are definitions that you might find useful.


Definition of District:
"an area of a country or town that has fixed borders that are used for official purposes, or that has a particular feature that makes it different from surrounding areas:"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/...glish/district


Definition of Nation:
"a country, especially when thought of as a large group of people living in one area with their own government, language, traditions, etc.:


Below is part of the prophecy against Tyre that was fulfilled in minute detail, including HOW it would be destroyed.

Ezekiel 26:3
therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: 'Here I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring up many nations against you, just as the sea brings up its waves.

Ezekiel 26:4
They will destroy the walls of Tyre and tear down her towers, and I will scrape away soil and make her a shining, bare rock.

Ezekiel 26:5
She will become a drying yard for dragnets in the midst of the sea.' "'For I myself have spoken,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘and she will become plunder for the nations.

Ezekiel 26:6
And her settlements in the countryside will be slaughtered by the sword, and people will have to know that I am Jehovah.'

Ezekiel 26:7
"For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: 'Here I am bringing King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon against Tyre from the north; he is a king of kings, with horses, war chariots, cavalrymen, and an army of many soldiers.

Ezekiel 26:8
He will destroy your settlements in the countryside with the sword, and he will build a siege wall and throw up a siege rampart against you and raise up a great shield against you.

Ezekiel 26:14
And I will make you a shining, bare rock, and you will become a drying yard for dragnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I myself, Jehovah, have spoken,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.


Now, run that by me again that the Nation of Tyre still exists.



Alter2Ego


________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

If Einstein is an all-powerful deity then yes; one wrong statement would invalidate that belief. If Einstein were merely a very smart human, then no. Humans are imperfect and prone to make mistakes. Omniscient and omnipotent deities are not imperfect and mistake prone. You ARE claiming that the Bible is the word of such an all-powerful deity, aren’t you? If it’s just a collection of stories written by humans, then we really have no disagreement here.

And I never claimed that one false statement in the Bible means there are no true statements in it. That is a straw man. I claimed that a false prophecy invalidates the belief that these “prophecies” (and the rest of the Bible) came from an all-powerful, omniscient deity. A collection of stories compiled by mere humans would be expected to get some things right and other things wrong. A book written by an omniscient deity would be expected to get everything right.

You are hanging your hat on semantics? I’m pretty sure that “I shall make thee a desolate city like the cities that are not inhabited” is not supposed to mean that Tyre would rebuild and become a city that is part of a larger nation. Sorry, not buying this one. You have a vested interest in finding ANY shred of truth in these “prophecies” and are twisting the plain meaning of the texts to try to make them true. Don’t you think REAL prophecies given by an actual all-powerful deity would not need to have such interpretations to make them seem true?

How about a REAL prophecy - “I will make Tyre no longer be an independent nation, but rather a city subject to other nations”. That is more in line with reality. An impartial observer like me has to wonder why God wrote something so unclear that we need folks like you to tell us that the plain meaning of the text is wrong and that the REAL meaning is more in line with the simple sentence I wrote above.

Or maybe, just maybe, the actual scripture was just written by humans. I know which alternative you believe. I leave it to others to make their own choice. But for me, the evidence is clear. The Bible is a product of humans.

Again, when was Egypt a desolate wasteland? When did the Nile dry up? These aren’t “unconfirmed”, they are wrong. There is a continuous historical record of human habitation of Egypt dating back thousands of years before that prophecy and continuing to the present. At no time over the past 4000 years has Egypt been a desolate wasteland. Similarly, especially with the Nile River being critical to the human inhabitants of Egypt, there has been no point during that same time when the Nile dried up.

Win some, lose some - that’s fine for mere humans (like Einstein), not so much for an omniscient deity. One would expect better if the Bible really is the word of such a God.

Where is the passage that proves the prophecy was true ?
And 1 prophecies luckily being right do not mean all of them are by default .
Every broken clock gives the right time twice a day .

lol that is not scientific advice evidences , that’s parabole wording like Nostradamus was good at too .
Nostradamus was divine as well I suppose .

stremba70:

You have yet to prove that any of the six (6) Bible Prophecies I've posted thus far are mistakes. Your desperation has driven you to claim the DISTRICT of Tyre is the same as the NATION of Tyre; remember?

Your reliance on secular historians to confirm ALL of the Bible prophecies is simply a convenient excuse that is to be expected from a loyal member of the Religion of Atheism. It shows the grip the Atheist Religion has on you. It's quite pathetic that you continue to pretend that you are not fully aware that secular historians don't know everything. Especially after I posted a source along with the weblink that pointed out the folly of and secular historians. The latter claimed the Bible was wrong numerous of times, only to be debunked by archeological findings that proved the Bible to be right on point. Take, for example, The Tel Dan Inscription that arrogant secular historians tried (but failed) to dismiss.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/...d-bible-story/

Deal with that.


Alter2Ego

________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

stremba70:

Hanging my hat? Hardly. I exposed your misuse of the word "District" (of Tyre), which exists today, when you tried to claim it means the same thing as "Nation/Country" (of Tyre) that was destroyed never to be rebuilt in fulfillment of Bible Prophecy. This is not mere semantics, as you are now pretending. Words have meaning for a reason.


Below are definitions that might help you in your struggles.

SEMANTICS:
"1 : the study of meanings:
a : the historical and psychological study and the classification of changes in the signification of words or forms viewed as factors in linguistic development
b (1) : SEMIOTICS

(2) : a branch of semiotics dealing with the relations between signs and what they refer to and including theories of denotation, extension, naming, and truth"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/semantics



NATION:
"A nation is an individual country considered together with its social and political structures."
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...english/nation



DISTRICT:
"1a: a territorial division (as for administrative or electoral purposes)
b: the basic administrative unit for local government in Northern Ireland

2 : an area, region, or section with a distinguishing character
a shopping district"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/district


See that? And I used entirely different dictionaries. They all agree that a district is simply a division, area, region, or section within a country. Therefore, the district of Tyre that stands today is not representative of the entire Nation/Country of Tyre that was destroyed in 332 B.C.E. in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. The Country/Nation of Tyre has never been rebuilt, and secular historians have been forced to confirm that it was destroyed in exactly the manner prophesied in the Bible some 250 years prior to the event.


THE BIBLE PROPHECY:
"Ezekiel 26:3
therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘Here I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring up many nations against you, just as the sea brings up its waves.

Ezekiel 26:4
They will destroy the walls of Tyre and tear down her towers, and I will scrape away soil and make her a shining, bare rock.

Ezekiel 26:5
She will become a drying yard for dragnets in the midst of the sea.' "For I myself have spoken,' declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, 'and she will become plunder for the nations.

Ezekiel 26:6
And her settlements in the countryside will be slaughtered by the sword, and people will have to know that I am Jehovah."

Ezekiel 26:12
They will loot your resources, plunder your merchandise, tear down your walls, and pull down your fine houses; then they will throw your stones and your woodwork and your soil into the water."


SECULAR HISTORY'S CONFIRMATION:
"Alexander then ordered the siege of Tyre. He dismantled much of the old mainland city of Ushu as well as using fallen debris, rock, and felled trees, filling in the sea between the mainland and the island to create a land bridge for his war machines. Over the centuries since, this caused heavy sedimentation to occur and permanently linked the island to the mainland, which is why Tyre is not an island today. After a siege of seven months, Alexander used his man-made causeway to batter down the walls of Tyre and take the city.

Tyre's 30,000 inhabitants were either massacred or sold into slavery, and the city was destroyed by Alexander in his rage at their having defied him for so long. The fall of Tyre led to the further development of Carthage (already established as a Phoenician colony in c. 814 BCE) as many survivors of the siege, who were able to escape Alexander's wrath by bribery or stealth, emigrated to their former colony in the north of Africa."
https://www.worldhistory.org/Tyre/


Now, how do you get around that detailed description of HOW Tyre would be destroyed, the detailed description given some 250 years before it occurred? How does your argument about semantics overcome that? So, yeah, run that by me again that the Bible Prophecy about Tyre's destruction failed.


You've been debunked.




Alter2Ego

________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

Montrealcorp:

You're obviously not aware of the fact that Nostradamus did not give any predictions. He presented generalized post-dictions that could easily be applied to any circumstance. This is confirmed by numerous sources. Below are two such sources:



"Nostradamus wrote in Middle French, using vague words, metaphors, and obscure, dated references. There are dozens of different translations of his "Centuries" book, with many variations on different words and phrases. This wide variety of interpretations helps the prophecies come "true," since if one translation doesn't really support the historical evidence, another can often be found that fits better.

"Often even Nostradamus scholars can't agree on what he was trying to say. Several of the prophecies have been the result of simple ignorance of the language, history, or both. . . .

"Nostradamus couched his quatrains in such vague terms that people read whatever they want into them. Nostradamus did not in fact make predictions (statements that are read and known about before they happen); instead he made post-dictions (statements that appear to come true only after the events already happened)."
https://www.livescience.com/24213-nostradamus.html



"Nostradamus' predictions tended to be about general types of events, like natural disasters and conflict-related events that tend to occur regularly as time goes on. Some people believe that his prophecies have predicted actual events, such as the death of Henry II, the French Revolution, the rise of Napoleon, the rise of Adolf Hitler, and the 9/11 attacks. Others maintain that because his prophecies tend to be about general types of events that occur frequently throughout history—and are written in a cryptic and vague manner—it's possible to find one that seems to match almost any event that has occurred."
https://www.britannica.com/story/nos...his-prophecies



Alter2Ego

________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

And you’ve yet to tell me when the Nile dried up and when Egypt was a desolate wasteland. I’m not arguing that SOME of what’s in the Bible is true. But if it’s really the word of an omniscient deity, ALL of it should be true. Or does your God sprinkle in a few lies to test our faith?

If it’s the product of humans, I can admit it’s pretty impressive (or more realistically, many Biblical books contain sections added after the original was written). If it’s the word of God, I’m not impressed; I’d expect a deity to get everything 100% right.

Wow!
You guys really have a lot of time to spend on this....

It seems like you are just going around & around.
The religious will look at thousands of ancient predictions and cherry pick the ones that they think have proven true. The rationalists will argue both the vagueness of the prediction as well as statistics (even IF the prediction is proven true, you need to consider the false predictions! 1 out of 1000 is not impressive, especially given the time frame).

So.... I *THOUGHT* one could resolve this be demanding a SPECIFIC prediction (like the Kennedy assassination) but then realized that people might commit the crime BECAUSE of the "prediction" (a postdiction?).

So now I'm thinking it has to be a specific prediction of a natural event (date, event, location) . "Yea! The prophet states that on the day after the 2003rd anniversary of the birth of christ, a great earthquake will strike Persia" (I chose a 6.6 magnitude earthquake on December 26th 2003 from a region known in biblical times). That would be a good start (assuming they don't have earthquakes there often).

And I know that jesus almost certainly wasn't born on December 25th but it's just an example.

That should be the ending words !
It’s all there .
Gg alter2ego .