I dont accept that precision is present. Using the term precision is begging the question.


I dont accept that precision is present. Using the term precision is begging the question.

If the universe required a creator, then that implies that god also requires a creator.
If you argument is that god was always present, then that implies that it is also possible for the universe to have always been present.


"I dont know" is an acceptable answer.

+1.

Don't know why this thread continues tbh. The OP has shown repeated basic misunderstandings of science, biology, geology, physics, chemistry, mathematics, reading comprehension plus a complete refusal to learn. Talking to A2E is like banging your head against a wall.

ALTER2EGO -to- NEEEEL:
"I don't know" is an acceptable answer in this instance only to someone who is being intellectually dishonest. The fact that you repeatedly evaded my direct questions by claiming I'm "begging the question" speaks for itself: you are on the run from truth. Keep running. I for one do not have the time or the inclination to chase people who are not interested in using logic. It's just not worth the bother as far as I'm concerned.

An atheist has no problem accepting that it required an intelligent human to create a stick of chalk or a piece of crayon. That same person will argue that the complex universe with millions of planets in the heavens did not require someone to create it--meaning an intelligent Designer/God. Either that, or they will do as you did in your last sentence bolded above in red. They will present the usual tripe: "I don't know," when it's clear that they very well know it could not have happened by itself. You can understand now why the Bible says the following about atheists.

"For his [God's] invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world's creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable;" (Romans 1:20)

~***~

________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)

ALTER2EGO -to- NEEEEL:
As I told someone at another forum, The problem with your idea is that you are attempting to assign human limitations to the Creator/God by saying since humans and everything in creation had a beginning, the supernatural being who created humans and the universe must have likewise had a beginning. It does not work that way. God is not human and therefore cannot be confined to human limitations, whether you choose to accept that or not. His inspired Word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, makes clear he is eternal.

"Before the mountains themselves were born, or you proceeded to bring forth as with labor pains the earth and the productive land, even FROM TIME INDEFINITE to TIME INDEFINITE you are God." (Psalms 90:2 – New World Translation)


"Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even FROM EVERLASTING to EVERLASTING, thou art God." (Psalms 90:2 – King James Version)


DEFINITION OF "ETERNAL": "Eternal means not having a beginning or an end."
http://www.yourdictionary.com/eternal



The fact that Jehovah God created millions of planets in the heavens, each within their own field of gravity that keeps them within their individual orbit--so they don't crash into each other--is evidence that he is all powerful and beyond the concept of human understanding.



________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)

If I dont know, then I dont know.You want me to make something up? You appear to be saying that because I dont know, I should accept your explanation of "god did it"?

In what way am I being intellectually dishonest?

I didnt evade the questions, they just didnt make sense. my answer to them all was " I dont accept that precision is present"




I am not arguing that the universe did not require someone to create it. I am arguing that there is no proof to show that someone did. I dont know that the universe just popped into being on its own either. I have no way of knowing.

Also, just to point out that the human doesnt create the stick of chalk or piece of crayon. He is simply re-arranging stuff that already existed. I have never seen anything be created, so I have no idea how it happens.

I am open to the idea that the universe was created. So far you have shown me nothing of proof or evidence ( note, existence of the universe is proof of only 1 thing, that the universe exists, there is no logical leap from the "universe exists" to "god did it")

ALTER2EGO -to- NEEEEL:
Save your atheist apologist arguments for someone else. I'm not interested in your little games. I've played it with numerous other atheists at the other websites where I debate, and they all present the same tripe that you've presented above. Their M.O. is to be intellectually dishonest, to evade direct questions, to refuse to use logic where it concerns the existence of the universe and the fact that the precision within it demands an intelligent Creator. Meanwhile, they have no problem acknowledging that it required someone with intelligence to create a mere paper bag.

I've posted ample evidence of precision in nature within this thread. Since I am a firm believer in the saying: "There is none so blind than they who will not see," my work with you is done where this topic is concerned. I will not reply to anything you post in this thread dealing with precision in nature.


"The wicked one according to his superciliousness makes no search; all his ideas are: 'There is no God.' " (Psalms 10:4)

~***~

________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)

ok, no problem

Why don't you just put people on ignore until there's no one left to argue with you. Better yet, get your god to smite us all, except it won't because it doesn't exist. 2000 years and you lot still can't come up with any evidence, when are you going to give up?

Would reality really be so unbearable for you without your invisible friend?

FellaGaga-52:

You are obsessed with the word magic in your dismissive comment above. As previously stated, Almighty God Jehovah and his son, Jesus Christ, performed miracles as opposed to magic tricks. The precision in the natural is clear evidence of an Intelligent Designer who had to have intervened and guided the outcome.


Alter2Ego

________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

FellaGaga-52:

My being "an insult even to irrationality" is beside the point. If you truly believed that, you would not be responding to my posts because that would make you even more irrational than I supposedly am. A rational person would not devote time debating a person that he or she truly believes is "an insult even to irrationality."

Below are issues that I raised with you in my last post, which you are now dodging by hiding behind personal insults. (That tactic won't work with me, by the way. I've already told you that I'm familiar with the games played by Atheists Religionists. I've debated Atheist Religionists for over a decade, and at various websites. Their behavior is as predictable as yours because they follow the same modus operandi, namely: personal attacks and schoolyard insults when they are confronted with issues they cannot overcome.

QUESTION #1 TO FellaGaga-52: Man has never been able to produce life from non-life; so how did life get here?

QUESTION #2 TO FellaGaga-52: Things in the natural world are far superior to the copied versions of the same things that humans made. Since the inferior manmade copies required intelligent designers (humans) shouldn't the far more superior natural designs require an Intelligent Designer aka God?


The forum awaits your answers to the two questions listed above.

Alter2Ego

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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

You know, I did have an impulse to offer to answer each other's questions, one at a time, one by one, on an alternating basis. I'd be glad to go first. So I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, though I really don't have much uncertainty about what's up here. So here goes.

Your question #1: Man has never been able to produce life from non-life; so how did life get here?

Somehow in your grand list of presuppositions, you seem to have adopted a position that if man can't create life, then obviously Jehovah did. It's hard to know where to start against that level of presupposition. But I'll just play the odds. With a googolplex of opportunities every nanosecond for the right sequences of chemicals to assemble across the cosmos, the fact that it did is certainly no surprise. To say: "Man hasn't done it in the lab in the last 50 years or so" just kind of belies not only a total ignorance, but a total lack of concern with learning about reality, instead leaning on an obvious myth about creation.


My question #1: Do you think it is more immoral to disobediently eat a piece of fruit than it is to kill every infant and fetus on earth?

What happened? Alter2Ego realizes he is mega-owned right out of the gate on the first question, so he abandons ship? Surely not!

This flippin' nut job is actually inviting new blood to this abomination of science, reason, honesty, and learning thread of his. Whenever one of these zealots spiels off another religious ramble, what I'd want to ask is:

"And you know this ... or you are just running it through your god idea and calling that reality?"

Because they don't know the difference. The dude actually said that since man hasn't produced life in a lab, it's obvious that Jehovah did it.