There's a difference between unknowingly doing good (which, in the Cath. Churches pov means doing what they say is right) and therefore gaining salvation and knowing what the CathCurch wants, deciding against it and still claiming that you're doing good and deserve salvation.

I'd say that given that definition then not a single catholic i know is gonna gain salvation. In a country like the UK I'd say very few will.

Ya, I agree. Luckily, one can be of differing opinions about the Roman Catholic Magisterium's role in mans journey to salvation.

I read in an opinion piece about this and gave the line: "The pope has shown himself to be more catholic than Catholic."

I thought that was a nice bit of Latin play.

There is no such thing as a good atheist. A man who rejects God can't be good. An atheist can't be moral because he wouldn't be atheist any more. Atheists are like animals, they don't have morals. I'm an atheist but I admit this. If it wasn't religion, religious people would also be like animals, without morals. The only reason they have morals is religion and the fear of God. Only God really has morals (if he would exist) and is without sins.

oh that took you a while

http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/co...good_atheists/

Look at the majority of the comments... they are like this "I think most of us can agree that this Pope is pretty cool. He has my respect at least."

This is what Jesus says about that

Luke 6:26
Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

You reject God?

I dont know God and afaik i never rejected him. Its always weird when a theist tells me i reject God. Its even odder hearing an atheist say it. Gods more then welcome to show himslef to me in some way and i will not reject him. If he doesn't its going to be hard to reject him. Its like rejecting some girl who likes me that i never met. Weird.


Why?

No. Even if morals are made up and not objective and delusional. They are still apart of some atheists views. So they believe they have them. Whether or not they are justified is another thing.


Also how do you know other animals have no morals. Do you have any evidence?
As an atheist you you dont believe in their God. So there should be no difference between a theist and an atheist if both base their morals on something thats not tangible.

Why do you give the theist who bases morals on something you dont believe in actual morals but not the atheist? Makes no sense.



That doesn't put Jesus in a good light.

guess his statements were bad for business

If there are no objective morals, then a man who accepts God can't be good either because there's no such thing as "good". Anyone can choose to have morals/principles for whatever arbitrary reason they want. Having principles is not the same as believing in God, though perhaps the two are correlated. You don't speak for all atheists. Some people also have feelings and aren't sociopaths, so they wouldn't go torturing children just because they're atheist. Human emotions can lead to a set of morals too, not just fear of Hell. How do you think humans decided on what to define as "sins" when writing religious scriptures?

I 100% agree with you. I'm a Christian and a fundy. No Christian is truly good either before or after they become one. If they were good, then they would never do things which are "not good" to whatever degree you can give. You dont need Christ to "be good" because, like you said, there are an infinite amount of standards as to what is good and what is bad. The concept of good in of itself is BS. Both Jesus and his disciples after he left hammered on that.

We choose for ourselves what is good, either on our own or from someone else. Even then, when we choose a standard, we cherry pick bits and pieces for ourselves. But that's OK. To be crass, God doesn't want us to be good, He just doesn't want us to make Him look bad. He created us for Him, for whatever reasons that is, and deeply needs us to acknowledge that and act accordingly. I seriously think that's it.

We don't need to be "good" we just need to care about Him and His happiness to be righteous in His eyes.

This reminds me of the story of the rich young ruler. He comes up running and asks what good thing he can do to inherit eternal life. Of course, Christ points out that "no one is good," except God. But then tells him to keep the commandments.

(But alas, what good would that do anyway, since no one is good, and they cannot be kept?)

Anyway, the young ruler boasts that he has kept them "from my youth." What a liar.

Then Christ says fine, sell everything you have then, and give to the poor, and "follow me."

Point: We can only be good before God if we are standing behind Christ.

The issue isn't that atheists are more moral or less moral than Christians. I'm sure there are downright wicked people who associate themselves with Christ. The key issue is one of advocacy, or the lack of such representation.

That may not seem fair, but the very next thing Christ says is that the first will be last, and the last will be first. That doesn't seem fair either.

I think these arguments about who is more moral are silly, really. For the Christian side especially, if we could just be good, and go to heaven based on that, then Christ died for nothing, no? Just accept that you are saved by grace through faith, and not of your own efforts or your own moral greatness.

I fail to see how "God" existing or not would have any impact on the existence of morals. It would surely only affect the nature of morals.


Other than that, nice gimmick account...



...but your comment on "animals not having morals" (paraphrased) reveals your lying. In any case, to return the thread subject - since you bear false witness, we are likely sharing faith in the afterlife if this Christianity-thing is true anyway.

He's going to argue that he's being sarcastic

On the interwebs sarcasm must be earned, not claimed.

I'm shamelessly stealing that

No, this time I was trolling.

Ah, guess if I were in this section more often I'd have known not to feed you. Cool, trolling alive and well in 2p2

cheers

This isn't true.

"The most essential part of trolling is convincing your victim that either a) truly believe in what you are saying, no matter how outrageous, or b) give your victim malicious instructions, under the guise of help.
Trolling requires decieving; any trolling that doesn't involve decieving someone isn't trolling at all; it's just stupid. As such, your victim must not know that you are trolling; if he does, you are an unsuccesful troll."

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling

You earn it by decieving people. You claimed it after 1 person responded to your post as if it were authentic. i'd say that's marginal.

"Pope Francis rocked some religious and atheist minds today when he declared that everyone was redeemed through Jesus, including atheists."

Most atheists are secret or unwitting devil worshippers. That's why they behave in such an unGodly way.

There were more persons, not only one.

Religion is a scam, because it promises you all kinds of good stuff, but here's the catch- it's all afterlife
This is what happened, before pope came out with the new rake and rewards system.

One sunny day at the popes office..
Pope thinking:"Oh, damn it, that chick from last night had such a good ass, too bad she won't get redeemed for her being an atheist. Oh well, guess i have to talk to god about it- he'll understand."
Then, pope opens a secret door, just behind the wall of books and sacred scrolls and enters a 16-digit code with the coordinates of a secret location to open the portal to heaven, to speak to god himself, in private.
Wsoooooaashh.

Pope to God, after vomiting all he ate this morning (btw getting through portals makes you vomit):"Hey, man, i think these atheist folks are quite nice dude, i think we might increase the odds of them getting redeemed".
God:"Well, dude i think it's a pretty nice suggestion i'll consider that- i have a few atheists working here for me in the factory of mine and they seem ok. Should we give them full redemption or what you have in mind, my son? 2:1 or 3:1 - am i being too strict here? Ah well, lets give it to everyone because everyone is a winner on the internet. Just remember to send a message out to the public when you get back to earth aight? Hey, take a hit before you leave, this portal really makes you vomit- that's why i don't visit earth that much."

You cant really troll someone who doesnt care if they are being trolled. But congrats.