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Old 12-17-2018, 08:06 PM   #51
Original Position
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Originally Posted by Pokerlogist View Post
Not a big deal, but in Rounders, at the end of the movie, Mike does get staked, wins, and as a result pays off his and his buddy's, Worm, debts plus ends up with new bankroll for a Vegas trip. Just saying it may not be the best example for your case.
Uh, no. Mike ends up as a complete degen, borrowing money from a mentor who foolishly trusts him to be responsible, then, once he luckboxes into going up by 30K, decides to drop out of his elite law school (on the path to a career where he can make well into six figures) to play in the WS of Poker with 33% of his roll. In another year or two he is going to be back begging his rich lawyer friends for money to chase after the excitement of playing in games for which he is underrolled. Oh yeah, and he decides to ditch his girlfriend as well because she is too smart and responsible for him. Seems like a good example for my case to me.

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But I do agree that if a friend is risking serious money and is clearly a bad poker player or, for that matter, getting into any business where you know he is doomed, discouraging him is morally proper.
Being a good poker player just isn't that important if you don't have capital and can't use good bankroll management.
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Old 12-18-2018, 12:02 AM   #52
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Re: Is poker evil?

Tsk. Tsk. Such negativity about a game that this forum site is supposed to be about.

A better ending:
He avoids a miserable 60 hr/week grind working as a corporate attorney where he mostly would be looking to find loopholes in complex contracts that he is supposed to use to screw a rival corporation before than they can screw his client, being treated like dirt by the firm's partners in hopes of one day getting to be a partner and not be fired at the whim of a senior partner, where he eventually loses all his ethics and morals, and rarely gets to see his girlfriend/wife who also has some grinding career.

Instead he goes to Vegas and eventually becomes like Doug Polk. He makes a ton of money playing in side cash games, and like Doug retires from poker at a young age, say 30. He makes funny youtube videos. His girlfriend joins him, and they go off into the sunset traveling the world. Much nicer dream.
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Old 12-18-2018, 01:25 AM   #53
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Originally Posted by Pokerlogist View Post
Tsk. Tsk. Such negativity about a game that this forum site is supposed to be about.

A better ending:
He avoids a miserable 60 hr/week grind working as a corporate attorney where he mostly would be looking to find loopholes in complex contracts that he is supposed to use to screw a rival corporation before than they can screw his client, being treated like dirt by the firm's partners in hopes of one day getting to be a partner and not be fired at the whim of a senior partner, where he eventually loses all his ethics and morals, and rarely gets to see his girlfriend/wife who also has some grinding career.

Instead he goes to Vegas and eventually becomes like Doug Polk. He makes a ton of money playing in side cash games, and like Doug retires from poker at a young age, say 30. He makes funny youtube videos. His girlfriend joins him, and they go off into the sunset traveling the world. Much nicer dream.
Sure, that is possible. I'm obviously talking in generalities and we can make up whatever happily ever afters we want for a fictional story.

Poker is a great game, but that doesn't mean it makes for a good career. Look at chess for an even clearer example of a fun and intellectually stimulating game that makes for a lousy career. But even if you disagree with me about poker as a career, we are in agreement about the larger point here.
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:26 AM   #54
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Originally Posted by Original Position View Post
Sure, that is possible. I'm obviously talking in generalities and we can make up whatever happily ever afters we want for a fictional story.

Poker is a great game, but that doesn't mean it makes for a good career. Look at chess for an even clearer example of a fun and intellectually stimulating game that makes for a lousy career. But even if you disagree with me about poker as a career, we are in agreement about the larger point here.
Almost literally no chessplayers can earn a living at chess by only playing chess. Chess professionals almost always earn money from private coaching and to a lesser extent from writing chess books and producing instructional chess videos.

I am semi-retired , and earn some extra cash by teaching after-school chess programs at three local elementary schools. I'd starve to death if I had to earn a living playing chess (I'm not even a Master, let alone a Grandmaster).
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Old 12-21-2018, 08:29 AM   #55
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Re: Is poker evil?

Is tennis evil?

Well, if you play someone purely on the basis of crushing their spirit and make them feel bad, then it would certainly not be a nice thing to do. But on the flip-side, if you invite a buddy a long to teach him the game, get him some exercise and have a good time - then it is a nice thing to do.

I think we can reasonably sure both things are scenarios that happen. It isn't the game that is bad, but what you do with it and how your actions in it affect people.

And sure, that gambling addict that needs the money for rent shouldn't be at the table and has certainly abdicated his personal responsibility. That doesn't make it right to take his money. And hiding behind "if I didn't do it, someone else would" is a logic that I don't agree with. It can justify anything, which is always a bad sign.
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Old 02-28-2019, 06:16 PM   #56
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Re: Is poker evil?

This thread probably fits Dear Abby better than two plus two, but here are some facts
Poker is a zero sum game; for every winner there is a looser. Except for skill the expected value for every player and all player's collectively is ZERO unless there is a rake. If organized poker were legal the rake would plummet because all it takes to offer poker at a restaurant or club is a table, a roof and a dealer. With nine players at table that is cheap entertainment. Compare for example to an offshore fishing tournament where luck is at least as important to winning yet you also have to have boat, tackle, buy gas and even a great fisherman is lucky to win back his entry fee.

The total amount of money in play in poker is a drop in the ocean compared to State Lotteries which the expected value of each and all players is about 50% of the amount they bet. Lotteries ONLY benefit those who DO NOT PLAY - generally the ones that don't dream for their money. Lotteries have no educational benefit, no skill, no entertainment value for the losers which is most of the players and that they require no discipline and zero intellect or intelligence which is why they are boil down to a tax on ignorance that goes to reduce the taxes of the smart and the rich.

Anyone looking for a cause to benefit society should consider lobbying their State congressman to replace their lottery with a State sponsored poker tournament in which winners earn college credit for mathematics, statistics while learning the importance of concentration and discipline in the process.

Last edited by Glenliness; 02-28-2019 at 06:32 PM. Reason: Failure to adequately proof original
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