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Old 09-02-2011, 03:26 PM   #26
kb coolman
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Originally Posted by DJFL View Post
What? Gambling with +EV is still gambling. Just like Gambling with -EV is still gambling. wtf?!
Not exactly, and distinction lies in measuring risk. As giants stated, it's only a true gamble when the expectations are not known, or are known to be even.
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Old 09-02-2011, 04:07 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by kb coolman View Post
Not exactly, and distinction lies in measuring risk. As giants stated, it's only a true gamble when the expectations are not known, or are known to be even.
Please look up the definition of gambling.
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Old 09-02-2011, 04:13 PM   #28
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Originally Posted by DJFL View Post
Please look up the definition of gambling.
Under the dictionary definition of gambling, merely waking up in the morning and starting your day, or driving 400 yards to the grocery store is "gambling." I don't find that a useful definition for these purposes...
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Old 09-02-2011, 04:26 PM   #29
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Re: Is poker evil?

I know its the wrong forum but I'm curious (if the OP is in america) how one still plays online poker these days.
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Old 09-02-2011, 04:32 PM   #30
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Originally Posted by Wizard-50 View Post
Through Christ everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial.

“All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything.
(1 Corinthians 6:12 ESV)

Poker is a sin for many people. Not because they're playing poker, but because they're being bad stewards.
Yes, so then murder is "permissible", but a sin. Rape is "permissible", but a sin. Etc, etc. The point being sin = evil. Poker is a sin and therefore is evil.

You agree?
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:25 PM   #31
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Re: Is poker evil?

No. The bible does not speak to gambling. But we can take other concepts like stewardship, idolatry, and covetousness to get a pretty good picture. That does not mean poker in itself is sinful though.

I do think it exposes people to sin more than other activities. Mostly because it deals with large amounts of money and pride.
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:16 PM   #32
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Originally Posted by Wizard-50 View Post
No. The bible does not speak to gambling. But we can take other concepts like stewardship, idolatry, and covetousness to get a pretty good picture. That does not mean poker in itself is sinful though.

I do think it exposes people to sin more than other activities. Mostly because it deals with large amounts of money and pride.
There are an uncountable number of things that the Bible does not speak about, yet most Christians/Churches would not hesitate to call those things "sin". Conversely, there are plenty of things in the Bible that are stated are "sins", yet in today's modern world, we use "historical" context to claim that those are not sins anymore. It would seem pretty clear that gambling and poker would be considered sinning in the vast majority of cases. Put it another way, what do you think Jesus would say if he saw you spending your time playing poker?

On a slightly separate note, 10 simple questions for you, just Y/N is fine, but feel free to elaborate if you want:

Are these sins (assuming they are all legal)?

1. Smoking 1 cigarette a day? Smoking 1 pack a day?
2. Hosting a website that has advertisements with scantly clad women.
3. Having sex with your wife while she is on her period
4. Having anal sex with your wife
5. Two men getting married who never have any sexual activity.
6. Going 5 mph over the speed limit.
7. Going 15 mph under the speed limit.
8. Choosing to *not* share the Gospel with someone who is a fundamentalist Muslim.
9. Having an income of $10MM/year, tithing the bare minimum, and then saving the rest of the money for yourself to use as you please.
10. Same question, but with $10k/year income.

Thanks!
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:01 PM   #33
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Originally Posted by dknightx View Post
There are an uncountable number of things that the Bible does not speak about, yet most Christians/Churches would not hesitate to call those things "sin". Conversely, there are plenty of things in the Bible that are stated are "sins", yet in today's modern world, we use "historical" context to claim that those are not sins anymore. It would seem pretty clear that gambling and poker would be considered sinning in the vast majority of cases. Put it another way, what do you think Jesus would say if he saw you spending your time playing poker?
This is where one must be discerning. The church is not the authority on sin. God is, and the Bible should be our litmus test.

On a slightly separate note, 10 simple questions for you, just Y/N is fine, but feel free to elaborate if you want:

Are these sins (assuming they are all legal)?

1. Smoking 1 cigarette a day? Smoking 1 pack a day? N. Unwise, but not sinful.
2. Hosting a website that has advertisements with scantly clad women. Not sure.
3. Having sex with your wife while she is on her period. N. Don't know why it would.
4. Having anal sex with your wife. Don't think so.
5. Two men getting married who never have any sexual activity. Yes I think so.
6. Going 5 mph over the speed limit. N.
7. Going 15 mph under the speed limit. N.
8. Choosing to *not* share the Gospel with someone who is a fundamentalist Muslim. Y.
9. Having an income of $10MM/year, tithing the bare minimum, and then saving the rest of the money for yourself to use as you please. Depends, likely yes.
10. Same question, but with $10k/year income. Depends, likely no.

Sin isn't a 'simple' matter. Just shooting off the hip on these, but it's not really up to me anyway. Anything can be done sinfully, or can be righteously. Worshiping God can be done sinfully. (*surfer accent) Sex can be done righteously.

Last edited by Wizard-50; 09-02-2011 at 08:07 PM. Reason: proofread, *accent :D
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:05 PM   #34
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Re: Is poker evil?

Tell him divorce is evil too (according to the bible) what's the point?
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Old 09-02-2011, 10:39 PM   #35
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Originally Posted by henrymi View Post
What can I do in this situation? I love my Dad and don't want to keep lying to him, but I'm not keen on giving up the money that i make from poker. I'm pretty sure if I tell him he will try and "deliver me" from the spirit of gambling, and would most likely lead to a falling out if I refuse (which I would).

Thoughts?
First of all, he probably feels like crap because he didn't have the money to pay his share of your tuition this year. He might not be as "zealous" as you think to attack you in light of this.

You could try the comparison route, comparing it to any buisness model, explaining + ev and -ev. Ask him what the difference between gambling and investing is, then harp on that.

Next, ask him where he got the idea that gambling was a sin from. When he can't do that, and resorts to some long winded b.s., point him to Deut 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Explain to him that the Book of Deuteronomy is Gods rules and judgements, i.e. the Law, and 4:2 clearly states that he's not allowed to just make up b.s. and add it on.

At the end of the day though, I don't see how your not going to fight. It's interesting that your willing to come forward with him about playing poker but not about being an atheist? Or is he aware of that, but playing poker is the last straw?
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:17 AM   #36
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Re: Is poker evil?

No poker is not evil. But poker is gambling and can become addictive. So for the uneducated and inexperienced player who can not rely on positive expectation, poker is interpreted as evil by GA and other religions. But poker is no more evil than real estate venture capitalism and or investing in the stock market. There is an event which involves probability and contains an outcome. Much like credit card companies loan money to a debtor, they weigh risk and reward and lend accordingly.
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Old 09-06-2011, 12:31 PM   #37
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Originally Posted by 6MaxLHE View Post
No poker is not evil. But poker is gambling and can become addictive. So for the uneducated and inexperienced player who can not rely on positive expectation, poker is interpreted as evil by GA and other religions. But poker is no more evil than real estate venture capitalism and or investing in the stock market. There is an event which involves probability and contains an outcome. Much like credit card companies loan money to a debtor, they weigh risk and reward and lend accordingly.
Lending money is a no no....
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:04 PM   #38
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Originally Posted by Gin 'n Tonic View Post
So he's already broken his solemn word to god, and he's going to lecture you about playing poker? Standard.
Not an entirely fair statement, though I see where you're coming from. If he's not willing to admit his own wrongdoing, it's totally hypocritical for him to be judging others. But if he acknowledges what he did was wrong with a contrite heart, there's nothing wrong with him trying to help others. Just because we've all done wrong at some point doesn't mean we can't call a spade a spade.

Just talk openly with your dad about it, and be open minded to what he has to say. Maybe he's right. More importantly, listen to what God says in his Word. The last thing I would do is try to hide it, that will just make life miserable. There's nothing concealed that won't be revealed. Just be honest.

Also, I agree with starvingwriter82 for rebuking everyone else in this thread saying you should call our your dad for his own sin and hypocrisy. That's the worst thing you could do. Always be respectful and agree to disagree, and who knows, maybe one of you will change your mind. Or not, but at least you won't be ruining relationships.
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:39 PM   #39
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Originally Posted by CompleteDegen View Post
This statement and the entire rest of your post do not answer if poker or gambling can be considered a sin. We know Jesus is the means by which sin will be cleansed, but that doesn't mean adultery is no longer a sin. In your opinion is poker a sin?
+1. I really liked his post but it does seem to dodge the issue a little bit.

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Originally Posted by dknightx View Post
There are an uncountable number of things that the Bible does not speak about, yet most Christians/Churches would not hesitate to call those things "sin". Conversely, there are plenty of things in the Bible that are stated are "sins", yet in today's modern world, we use "historical" context to claim that those are not sins anymore. It would seem pretty clear that gambling and poker would be considered sinning in the vast majority of cases. Put it another way, what do you think Jesus would say if he saw you spending your time playing poker?
I would definitely say you're asking the right questions. Grace is never a license to sin but is supposed to empower us to turn away from evil. So then what is the definition of sin? "..Sin is lawlessness." 1 John 3:4. So the Law of Moses brings an awareness of what is sin. I think what Doggg was trying to say is that without the law, there is no knowledge of sin. So the Law was not abolished but fulfilled in Jesus the Messiah. So we are no longer justified in God's eyes by trying to keep the Law, but by trusting in the one who did, that is, his Son Jesus Christ.

Naturally, the next question is, does that mean we just totally disregard God's Law? Is it now Ok to eat pork, shellfish, practice sodomy, loan at interest, and commit adultery? There are tons of passages still in the New Testament telling us to turn from sin. So which parts of the Law are we supposed to try to obey? I've struggled to understand this throughout my Christian walk, but I think if it wasn't repeated by the Lord Jesus Christ or any of the apostles, then it's not especially important. For example, the dietary laws were specifically for the Jewish people and was symbolic of God's holiness, it wasn't so much a "moral" issue. Whereas homosexuality, beastiality, incest, are all moral issues and the call to sexual purity is repeated several times in the New Testament, whereas dietary laws, circumcision, and what clothes we are supposed to wear is not.

Ok, so I will take a shot at your specific examples just for the challenge.

Quote:
Are these sins (assuming they are all legal)?

1. Smoking 1 cigarette a day? Smoking 1 pack a day?
A: Lawful? Yes. Therefor, sin, no. Doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

2. Hosting a website that has advertisements with scantly clad women.
A. Even just from a common sense standpoint, this seems wrong considering that you are tempting other people to lust, which the Lord says has already crossed the line of adultery (Matthew 5:27)

3. Having sex with your wife while she is on her period
A. The New Testament reiterates the importance of sexual cleanliness, and Leviticus 18:9 says it's wrong. Also from a common sense standpoint, doesn't seem like the most loving thing to make your wife do.

5. Two men getting married who never have any sexual activity.
A. Just seems like an insult to God and total disregard for his plan of marriage. What are they trying to do this for, tax benefits?

6. Going 5 mph over the speed limit.
7. Going 15 mph under the speed limit.
A. You said in your question "if it's not against the law" so this is hard to answer. My rationale for breaking the speed limit is usually because I think it's safer to everyone on the road to keep up with the flow of traffic lol.

8. Choosing to *not* share the Gospel with someone who is a fundamentalist Muslim.
A. Depends. If they were open and seemed to be seeking the truth in humility, it would be sinful neglect to deprive them of their food. But there are times when it's wise to hold back the truth if someone seems arrogant in which case we shouldn't "cast our pearls to swine."

9. Having an income of $10MM/year, tithing the bare minimum, and then saving the rest of the money for yourself to use as you please.
A. Without a doubt, yes, this would be sinful. The overarching message of the New Testament is, if you truly love God, you will take care of those in need from a willing and generous heart. So if you're making bank and only tithing the bare minimum, that's a sign of a much bigger problem. If you're making 10k a year in a first world country, chances are you have your hands tied as to how helpful you can be to others and so your hope is set in heaven and not on fleeting worldly treasures.
I realize this thread is old but some of these posts were very thought provoking. God bless.
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:48 PM   #40
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Re: Is poker evil?

Evil is an act that wants bad for the other. The only sin in professional poker is that it is not the most compassionate act and that time and energy could be used for something better, as far as others go.
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:29 PM   #41
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Re: Is poker evil?

So long as the game is a fair one, how could it be evil?

The game is essentially a mutual contract between two (or more) people. About the only thing I can think of which would invalidate this thought process would be if one of the parties was unable to consent to the contract. Otherwise, there is nothing evil about poker and nothing to feel guilty about if you win.
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Old 08-10-2018, 07:53 PM   #42
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Originally Posted by VOL View Post
So long as the game is a fair one, how could it be evil?

The game is essentially a mutual contract between two (or more) people. About the only thing I can think of which would invalidate this thought process would be if one of the parties was unable to consent to the contract. Otherwise, there is nothing evil about poker and nothing to feel guilty about if you win.
As a general principle, it seems obvious that two people can consent to perform an evil action. For example, if my friend wanted to play poker with me and I knew he needed his stake for IRL expenses I would refuse and encourage others to do the same. I would regard it as a morally culpable failure of the duties of friendship to do otherwise.
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Old 08-10-2018, 08:49 PM   #43
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Originally Posted by Original Position View Post
As a general principle, it seems obvious that two people can consent to perform an evil action. For example, if my friend wanted to play poker with me and I knew he needed his stake for IRL expenses I would refuse and encourage others to do the same. I would regard it as a morally culpable failure of the duties of friendship to do otherwise.
Are you building a case for your inability to consent or your friend's inability to consent?
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Old 08-11-2018, 01:19 AM   #44
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Re: Is poker evil?

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Are you building a case for your inability to consent or your friend's inability to consent?
No.
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