Not exactly, and distinction lies in measuring risk. As giants stated, it's only a true gamble when the expectations are not known, or are known to be even.

Please look up the definition of gambling.

Under the dictionary definition of gambling, merely waking up in the morning and starting your day, or driving 400 yards to the grocery store is "gambling." I don't find that a useful definition for these purposes...

I know its the wrong forum but I'm curious (if the OP is in america) how one still plays online poker these days.

Yes, so then murder is "permissible", but a sin. Rape is "permissible", but a sin. Etc, etc. The point being sin = evil. Poker is a sin and therefore is evil.

You agree?

No. The bible does not speak to gambling. But we can take other concepts like stewardship, idolatry, and covetousness to get a pretty good picture. That does not mean poker in itself is sinful though.

I do think it exposes people to sin more than other activities. Mostly because it deals with large amounts of money and pride.

There are an uncountable number of things that the Bible does not speak about, yet most Christians/Churches would not hesitate to call those things "sin". Conversely, there are plenty of things in the Bible that are stated are "sins", yet in today's modern world, we use "historical" context to claim that those are not sins anymore. It would seem pretty clear that gambling and poker would be considered sinning in the vast majority of cases. Put it another way, what do you think Jesus would say if he saw you spending your time playing poker?

On a slightly separate note, 10 simple questions for you, just Y/N is fine, but feel free to elaborate if you want:

Are these sins (assuming they are all legal)?

1. Smoking 1 cigarette a day? Smoking 1 pack a day?
2. Hosting a website that has advertisements with scantly clad women.
3. Having sex with your wife while she is on her period
4. Having anal sex with your wife
5. Two men getting married who never have any sexual activity.
6. Going 5 mph over the speed limit.
7. Going 15 mph under the speed limit.
8. Choosing to *not* share the Gospel with someone who is a fundamentalist Muslim.
9. Having an income of $10MM/year, tithing the bare minimum, and then saving the rest of the money for yourself to use as you please.
10. Same question, but with $10k/year income.

Thanks!

This is where one must be discerning. The church is not the authority on sin. God is, and the Bible should be our litmus test.

On a slightly separate note, 10 simple questions for you, just Y/N is fine, but feel free to elaborate if you want:

Are these sins (assuming they are all legal)?

1. Smoking 1 cigarette a day? Smoking 1 pack a day? N. Unwise, but not sinful.
2. Hosting a website that has advertisements with scantly clad women. Not sure.
3. Having sex with your wife while she is on her period. N. Don't know why it would.
4. Having anal sex with your wife. Don't think so.
5. Two men getting married who never have any sexual activity. Yes I think so.
6. Going 5 mph over the speed limit. N.
7. Going 15 mph under the speed limit. N.
8. Choosing to *not* share the Gospel with someone who is a fundamentalist Muslim. Y.
9. Having an income of $10MM/year, tithing the bare minimum, and then saving the rest of the money for yourself to use as you please. Depends, likely yes.
10. Same question, but with $10k/year income. Depends, likely no.

Sin isn't a 'simple' matter. Just shooting off the hip on these, but it's not really up to me anyway. Anything can be done sinfully, or can be righteously. Worshiping God can be done sinfully. (*surfer accent) Sex can be done righteously.

Tell him divorce is evil too (according to the bible) what's the point?

First of all, he probably feels like crap because he didn't have the money to pay his share of your tuition this year. He might not be as "zealous" as you think to attack you in light of this.

You could try the comparison route, comparing it to any buisness model, explaining + ev and -ev. Ask him what the difference between gambling and investing is, then harp on that.

Next, ask him where he got the idea that gambling was a sin from. When he can't do that, and resorts to some long winded b.s., point him to Deut 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Explain to him that the Book of Deuteronomy is Gods rules and judgements, i.e. the Law, and 4:2 clearly states that he's not allowed to just make up b.s. and add it on.

At the end of the day though, I don't see how your not going to fight. It's interesting that your willing to come forward with him about playing poker but not about being an atheist? Or is he aware of that, but playing poker is the last straw?

No poker is not evil. But poker is gambling and can become addictive. So for the uneducated and inexperienced player who can not rely on positive expectation, poker is interpreted as evil by GA and other religions. But poker is no more evil than real estate venture capitalism and or investing in the stock market. There is an event which involves probability and contains an outcome. Much like credit card companies loan money to a debtor, they weigh risk and reward and lend accordingly.

Lending money is a no no....

Not an entirely fair statement, though I see where you're coming from. If he's not willing to admit his own wrongdoing, it's totally hypocritical for him to be judging others. But if he acknowledges what he did was wrong with a contrite heart, there's nothing wrong with him trying to help others. Just because we've all done wrong at some point doesn't mean we can't call a spade a spade.

Just talk openly with your dad about it, and be open minded to what he has to say. Maybe he's right. More importantly, listen to what God says in his Word. The last thing I would do is try to hide it, that will just make life miserable. There's nothing concealed that won't be revealed. Just be honest.

Also, I agree with starvingwriter82 for rebuking everyone else in this thread saying you should call our your dad for his own sin and hypocrisy. That's the worst thing you could do. Always be respectful and agree to disagree, and who knows, maybe one of you will change your mind. Or not, but at least you won't be ruining relationships.

+1. I really liked his post but it does seem to dodge the issue a little bit.

I would definitely say you're asking the right questions. Grace is never a license to sin but is supposed to empower us to turn away from evil. So then what is the definition of sin? "..Sin is lawlessness." 1 John 3:4. So the Law of Moses brings an awareness of what is sin. I think what Doggg was trying to say is that without the law, there is no knowledge of sin. So the Law was not abolished but fulfilled in Jesus the Messiah. So we are no longer justified in God's eyes by trying to keep the Law, but by trusting in the one who did, that is, his Son Jesus Christ.

Naturally, the next question is, does that mean we just totally disregard God's Law? Is it now Ok to eat pork, shellfish, practice sodomy, loan at interest, and commit adultery? There are tons of passages still in the New Testament telling us to turn from sin. So which parts of the Law are we supposed to try to obey? I've struggled to understand this throughout my Christian walk, but I think if it wasn't repeated by the Lord Jesus Christ or any of the apostles, then it's not especially important. For example, the dietary laws were specifically for the Jewish people and was symbolic of God's holiness, it wasn't so much a "moral" issue. Whereas homosexuality, beastiality, incest, are all moral issues and the call to sexual purity is repeated several times in the New Testament, whereas dietary laws, circumcision, and what clothes we are supposed to wear is not.

Ok, so I will take a shot at your specific examples just for the challenge.

I realize this thread is old but some of these posts were very thought provoking. God bless.

Evil is an act that wants bad for the other. The only sin in professional poker is that it is not the most compassionate act and that time and energy could be used for something better, as far as others go.

So long as the game is a fair one, how could it be evil?

The game is essentially a mutual contract between two (or more) people. About the only thing I can think of which would invalidate this thought process would be if one of the parties was unable to consent to the contract. Otherwise, there is nothing evil about poker and nothing to feel guilty about if you win.

As a general principle, it seems obvious that two people can consent to perform an evil action. For example, if my friend wanted to play poker with me and I knew he needed his stake for IRL expenses I would refuse and encourage others to do the same. I would regard it as a morally culpable failure of the duties of friendship to do otherwise.

Are you building a case for your inability to consent or your friend's inability to consent?

No.

Hey man! My name is Noah and I'm new here. I'm also a born again believer in Christ. Here is my take:

I think its important to not be too objective about it. As a Christian, we no longer live under the law. When Jesus came to this earth, he brought grace and truth, and he completely fulfilled the law's purpose. The law of moses suggested many things that would be undesirable. What's the law's purpose? If you look in I believe Roman's 3(?) It discussed quite a bit that the laws only purpose was to show us how sinful we are as humans.

So! What does that mean? It means that sin and evil have nothing to do with following rules and religious, legalistic culture. It has all to do with our heart, our intentions, and ultimately our conviction through the holy spirit. If you are Christian, I encourage you to look at it from a more subjective stance. Even take the time to pray about it. Ultimately it's up to the convictions inside of you. I know people who have convictions about poker and I know people who dont, like myself. Both of these stances are right. So dont allow legalism to blind you to the answer to his question. It relies on your relationship with God and what he would want for your life

Hope that helps.

Doing anything primarily to make wealth is foolish. Whether its working a job, starting a business or playing poker. Instead focus on becoming skillful in your work. Then as a by product you earn $. in all toil there is profit. Proverbs 14:23

A lot of players play poker with not enough capital (bankroll) and hope to make money as there primary reason as playing. They all lose.

When they lose they are discontent.

1st timothy 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

food and clothing makes you content. not playing super high rollers and earning millions of dollars. neither does losing millions of dollars make you discontent if you just remember 1st timothy 6:8.

Going into debt isn't the smartest idea either.

Romans 13:8

Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for xthe one who loves another has fulfilled the law

People ignore this and still get student debt, credit cards, house loans, car loans, loans to start business, payday loans and so on.

Proverbs 22:7
The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

if you borrow your a slave to whoever borrowed you the money.
lol countries borrow money so whole countries are ruled by the rich and slaves to them because the rich borrow them the money.

Poker isn't evil but it depends why your playing it. your motives make it evil.

That's more like envy. And clearly in poker you want your opponent to fail and lose money, so you can win.

Seems like if your friend is a highly skilled pro player and a much better player than you and that's the way he makes his living , then you would be doing him a disservice by not playing him and morally wrong by encouraging others not to as well.

Poker can be looked at like any other small business. You invest capital and operating expenses and hope to turn a profit.

I would say that most of the full-time poker players I knew back when I was playing should have quit at the earliest opportunity. Their edges were almost never as big as they thought, almost all of them were underrolled, they were in an industry clearly on the decline, the lifestyle encouraged by their profession was long-term unhealthy, and there was little viable advancement opportunity. So I would encourage most poker players to quit as a general rule.

That being said, yeah, viewed as a small business, I'm completely on Knish's side in Rounders in refusing to stake Matt Damon. Once you are down to using your IRL-needed money as your stake, it is time to quit, regardless of how good you are. Being a competent poker pro is about much more than just being a skilled poker player, and using rent money as a stake is a very strong sign that you don't have the other qualities needed to be successful in that industry. If a friend wanted to quit their job and start a new business that I thought was a bad idea, I also wouldn't loan them money and encourage them to not quit. Part of being a good friend is helping your friends avoid making bad, short-term oriented choices.

Not a big deal, but in Rounders, at the end of the movie, Mike does get staked, wins, and as a result pays off his and his buddy's, Worm, debts plus ends up with new bankroll for a Vegas trip. Just saying it may not be the best example for your case.

But I do agree that if a friend is risking serious money and is clearly a bad poker player or, for that matter, getting into any business where you know he is doomed, discouraging him is morally proper.