Wife dresses up in all black and nails husband to a cross, upside down, and then takes the children to Kansas... amirite?

Are you really trying to argue that kids aren't impressionable at that age? And your example is DARE?

The entire Mormon religion is proof of just how easily indoctrinated kids are (I think Christianity is too but Mormonism is a common ground for us).

I know people my age who, to this day, still buy into the D.A.R.E. stuff, including the misinformation. In fact, one of the reasons that debates over controlled substances get so messy is that this kind of misinformation has taken root (largely as a result of "legitimization" by programs such as D.A.R.E.).

(Edit - I also started having nightmares about hell due in part to my experiences at church. No way, no way in a billion years, am I going to put a child of mine through that. If I have kids nobody is going to tell them about hell, they are not going to have nightmares about it, they are not going to have panic attacks, not going to ****ing happen.)

(Edit - Also my sister and I threatened to run away from home during the "D.A.R.E. phase" because our mother was "abusive" because she drank alcohol, and we poured her wine down the sink when she wasn't looking and **** like that. Yeah, we got better - eventually.)

I am not saying that they are not impressionable, but that something like a once a week sunday school is not going to do much. Especially when there is another source of influence.

The reason that Mormons are so successful (as well as many christian homes) is because there is a consistent barrage of influence. They are kept in tight nit groups and rarely socialize with others.

I grew up in a super religious home, but I went to public schools and all of the kids in the neighborhood were normal kids (mostly catholic) and so because I had competing influences I turned out differently then the kids that were home schooled at locked away.

The type of environment that this guys kid is going to be in is going to be absolutely nothing like the type of environment that many mormons and christian kids are exposed to. Totally different.

I would never let my kids go to church (I'd rather go without sex, and divorce would probably follow quickly with a massive campaign for custody on my part). But your friend married a hardcore Christian. Now he's surprised that she wants her kids to go to church?

I can't advise him, I would just not be able to be with a woman like that, but why do you make it sound like he's surprised? Given she's a hardcore Christian, he should be happy she hasn't filed for divorce herself by now.

I think he should stick with his original plan. The kids should figure it out for themselves when they are old enough. No churches, camps, counsellors, priests or whatnot.

What do you think has provided more utility for kids? Religion or Divorce?

That's not really fair to the wife, though. Not going to church means not knowing what it's about.

Jib is right, the wife should let him send the kids to atheist camp.

I think religion has done them far more harm, if that's what you mean.

Well, this sounds like an excellent compromise:

If the Christians here are really behind their respective positions, shouldn't they agree that this is fair?

Her: "He's a good man, he'll accept Jesus into his heart someday. Maybe having kids will help him to see the light."

Him: "She doesn't really believe that stuff, does she?"

Depending on what you mean by "athiest camp", yes I would agree completely. If the husband wanted to send the children once a week secular religious studies class or something, that should be fair.

Not that I think these exist for children, but whatever.

They do (Camp Quest, where atheists can douche it up for their kids). I don't know tons about the camps - I think they are not overtly atheistic, but that may be wrong.

Anyway, the husband should propose this, the wife will obv decline, and then they can just start bottling up their resentment like a normal couple.

He could tell the wife that he's the head of the household and women should know their place. Then use bible quotes to back it up.

OP, how did she go to church every day? Did you really let her out of the house? You know women can't fend for themselves outside of the bedroom/kitchen.

Well, maybe it's about time his wife learned that church != religion.

I had/have a very similar situation. I relented and my kids attended religious ed. My oldest has been confirmed and my youngest still attends. I don't have too much regret. Because...

The most important thing in my opinion, is to teach your children to think for themselves. You want to teach them 'how' to think. Not 'what' to think. I'm pretty sure my oldest still believes in god, but also realizes that the bible is not to be taken literally. My youngest doesn't believe in god, but still enjoys volunteering and other activities with her church, which is fine with me.

I guess my advice is not to let this become a huge wedge or distraction for you and your wife. Just make sure to teach your children how to think for themselves. Then let them do just that and have confidence in them. Maybe let your wife know up front that you'll insist on them accepting science and you yourself will not lie to them about your own views.

I actually understand that it sucks to let your kids go to church if you think that's bull****.

I would probably tell my wife in this case that they can go that hour but nothing else, and during week talk to them about EVOLUTION, BIG BANG, DARWIN !!!!!


and also this way you will get sex wich is better than god

very level headed post. +1

also - Good compromise-- the kids get to go to Camp Quest!

http://www.camp-quest.org/

I read an article about this camp and when my kids are old enough (they're 1 and 2& 1/2 now) I would love for them to try it out.

Basically- Its a summer camp that encourages exploration and free thinking. "Campers are not told that there is no God; only that they should weigh the evidence." PERFECT!

well I for one would have been much much much much better off if my parents got divorced immediately after I was born and not 18 years later. do you really think divorce is a bad thing? what's better, having two people who hate each other live together and constantly fight and bicker try to raise children together or having them be separated and sharing custody?

i wish my parents never introduced me to religion. that **** ****ed me up and I would never want to subject my children to such an evil institution . fortunately for me I was able to escape and develop the ability to think for myself, and not rely on an invisible being in the sky to tell me what's right, what's wrong, and that I should give to charity and help others.

edit: the last time I was in a church was for my grandfather's funeral, and the priest decided it would be a good idea to take some time and preach about the evils of homosexuality and same sex marriage, and that we need to fight against the new law legalizing same sex marriage in CT. I was so pissed I stormed out of the church. My grandfather would never have stood for such hate-filled speech.

/rant

Best post.

If this were the case in my marriage (it's not, my wife is also Athiest, THANK GOD (j/k)) I would use al sorts of bible quotes to my advantage.

Oh, I meant this as a joke. I wouldn't recommend it on the actual creature. Women are better at that stuff than men. She'll manipulate the hell out of you and somehow make it seem like she's "just trying to serve her man."

Look, for millennia men were granted social status above women in much of the world. They were allowed to rape, beat, and berate their wives to their hearts' content. They were physically stronger and had access to better education.

And they still ended up whipped.

Granted?

What if it wasn't granted? What if it was just taken by force then became the norm?

I saw a video once by a TED anthropologist that said that once the plow came into use women lost their freedom and status. That was roughly 10,000 years ago.

So good luck to all those people trying to pin chauvinism on the bible. The bible may have been coping with the status quo not necessarily reaffirming it.

1. I've noticed that lately, all of your claims always start with "What if". As if that makes it a meaningful statement. Heres a hint, unless you support it with something, its just as meaningful as "what if monkeys flew out of my butt"

2. Even if the bible is just "coping" with the status quo, for a book that Christians like to tout as morally superior, i dont think merely "coping" with the status quo is any better.