Philosophizing and Spiritual Growth - Religion, God, and Theology

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10-24-2011 , 11:02 AM

Splendour

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 18,896

Doesn't philosophizing tend to keep us longer in the natural man stage and delay our spiritual growth?

The Difference Between the Carnal Man and the Spiritual Man
This comparison shows the two extremes. Most Christians are somewhere in between the two:
http://www.verbo.org/site/degolyer3.htm

God's Purpose: Life! by Jim DeGolyer:
http://www.verbo.org/site/degolyer1.htm

This is a meditation thread for deep thinkers so don't expect a debate. I should have put "(Meditation Thread)" in the title.

10-24-2011 , 11:15 AM

Original Position

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Splendour

Why would not thinking about things prevent your spiritual growth? Does it help you to grow spiritually if you believe false claims, or don't understand what you are talking about?

10-24-2011 , 11:21 AM

kb coolman

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Come on OrP...this isn't a debate thread.

10-24-2011 , 11:29 AM

Pooter

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So this is the gist of it;

Find people who writes nice stuff that you personally agree with about life and god. Then deem that/those person/people correct and everything one else wrong.

Two thumbs up god!

10-24-2011 , 11:45 AM

VP$IP

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Splendour

This is a meditation thread for deep thinkers so don't expect a debate.

lol

10-24-2011 , 12:08 PM

Splendour

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 18,896

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

Why would not thinking about things prevent your spiritual growth? Does it help you to grow spiritually if you believe false claims, or don't understand what you are talking about?

Using your reason after you're born again is useful for studying doctrine but if you draw wrong conclusions before you're born again it can make you miss your spiritual birth.

If you ask me there's a disparity between our carnal and spiritual man. Initially our carnal man is stronger.

The only Christian worth being isn't a Catholic or a Methodist or a Pentecostal, etc. but an overcomer.

10-24-2011 , 12:45 PM

bunny

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Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 11,219

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splendour

I think of it as a triangle rather than a linear scale - carnal, spiritual and intellectual. I agree that focussing on one aspect (or emphasizing one aspect, anyhow) ******s the others.

10-24-2011 , 12:47 PM

VP$IP

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I think of even more facets than that.

Intellectual
Physical
Social
Creative
Financial

10-24-2011 , 12:47 PM

Original Position

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Splendour

But surely not using your reason before you're born again can also make you miss your spiritual birth, no? In fact, since reason is directed towards truth, shouldn't it make it more likely that you'll come to know true doctrine if you use your reason?

10-24-2011 , 12:51 PM

#10

bunny

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Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 11,219

Quote:

Originally Posted by VP$IP

I think of even more facets than that.

Intellectual
Physical
Social
Creative
Financial

I'm a simpler man than you. I don't know how to approach life from a financial perspective, for example. Nonetheless, I think the principle is the same, no matter the number of dimensions required to model it.

10-24-2011 , 12:53 PM

#11

VP$IP

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It is one facet. If it is neglected, the other facets often suffer.

10-24-2011 , 02:00 PM

#12

Splendour

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

There can be no right knowledge of God acquired in an ordinary way without the scriptures, Matt. 22:29. 'Ye do err,' said Christ to the Sadducees, 'not knowing the scriptures.'

Christ is our goal. He's one with the Father and walks in the Spirit.

He didn't just give forgiveness of sin at the Cross. He gave the opportunity of a new spiritual birth to every person in the world.

His side was pierced. Blood and water came out.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4&version=NKJV

Blood and water signifies a new birth.

10-24-2011 , 02:35 PM

#13

Splendour

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A carnal man doesn't even know he needs to be born again. He has to be told.

In the OT hearing is obeying.

Thus God simplified things. He never meant it to be a problem to be solved by us.

He's the spiritual problem solver.

Oh and if you have to be a little child to be a beleiver like all atheists seem to think how do you explain the Apostles following Jesus? They were grown men.

10-24-2011 , 02:57 PM

#14

kb coolman

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Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5,452

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splendour

Oh and if you have to be a little child to be a beleiver like all atheists seem to think how do you explain the Apostles following Jesus? They were grown men.

This is not a debate thread.

10-24-2011 , 02:59 PM

#15

Original Position

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Splendour

It is necessary to use reason in order to correctly use the scriptures. Thus--reason is necessary for spiritual growth, right?

10-24-2011 , 03:23 PM

#16

Duncelanas

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Splendour

Doesn't philosophizing tend to keep us longer in the natural man stage and delay our spiritual growth?

This is a meditation thread for deep thinkers

Lol

10-24-2011 , 03:26 PM

#17

CompleteDegen

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Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,480

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splendour

Oh and if you have to be a little child to be a beleiver like all atheists seem to think how do you explain the Apostles following Jesus? They were grown men.

You have surveyed all atheists and compiled their opinions on this matter? I don't know anyone who thinks you have to he a child, but that the apostles were grown men isn't particularly compelling. There were grown men at Jonestown. Grown men follow Scientology.

10-24-2011 , 03:46 PM

#18

kb coolman

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^^ and if by 'grown men' you mean teen agers....

10-24-2011 , 06:36 PM

#19

Splendour

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 18,896

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

It is necessary to use reason in order to correctly use the scriptures. Thus--reason is necessary for spiritual growth, right?

Look at this scripture:

5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.

Of course your mind is a conduit but is your own mind authoritative?

10-24-2011 , 06:38 PM

#20

Splendour

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 18,896

Quote:

Originally Posted by VP$IP

^^ This is probably for deep thinkers. You know who you are.

I doubt we mean the same thing by "deep thinker".

The biblical heart is used by believers when they think and that includes the heart, the mind, the will, the conscience and the emotions. All acting in concert.

10-24-2011 , 06:56 PM

#21

Original Position

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Splendour

The issue is whether philosophy and reason can help spiritual growth. Just because they are not authoritative doesn't mean that they are not an important element of spiritual growth.

10-24-2011 , 07:14 PM

#22

VeeDDzz`

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Deep thinking and enlightenment via religion and faith-based belief....

That's the equivalent of claiming - cancer cure and full recovery via witch-doctors and crystal therapies.

Coming from a catholic background myself, the only time I felt any enlightenment or even began to think deeply was when I realized that all my religious beliefs were completely wrong. This is when the journey to enlightenment actually begins, for enlightenment without reason and logic, is nothing but self-delusion.

10-24-2011 , 07:57 PM

#23

StewTradheir

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Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 486

Intellectual development is spiritual development.

Yes, when your a tard, its best to trust the answers in the back of the texbook before you understand. When you understand and your answers dont match up, you probably don't really understand. When you truly understand, I'd argue your answers will match the Book, and in some cases, see where the Catholics f'd up the Book. (yea I know, this is where it gets hairy)

As for emotions, they're animalistic.

10-24-2011 , 08:11 PM

#24

VeeDDzz`

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Quote:

Originally Posted by StewTradheir

1. "Intellectual development is spiritual development."
How? What evidence do you have for this? How do you define - spiritual development?

2. "The Catholics f'd up the book?"
How? What evidence do you have for this? The Catholics as opposed to who else?

3. "When you truly understand, I'd argue your answers will match the Book."
Truly understand what? How do you define - to understand -, do you define it by belief or by evidence? Why will these answers match the 'Book' and where exactly do they match the 'Book'?

You're making some pretty bold statements here, with no justification, reasoning or evidence. Is this what it takes to be intellectually and spiritually developed?

10-24-2011 , 08:34 PM

#25

StewTradheir

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Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 486

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeeDDzz`

Ha, I just gave answers "in the back of the book" in a sense. Yes, I didn't go through my methodology, and it would take a lot of effort and thought to do so. And even then, you wouldn't accept it no matter how meticulous it was IMO. You would look at the most irrelevant, vain thing, and dismiss it all. (unless your a very rare person)

I basically know everything worth knowing, and what I don't know, I know where to get that too.

At this point, it's just a matter of doing.

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